Hi,

I have a birth registration for Henry John Moore, born Leytonstone, Essex, in 1870.

The father is given as John Henry Moore, mother is Martha Lucas.

This family is present in the 1871 and 1891 census.

However, I would like to find the marriage registration for John Henry Moore and Martha Lucas, but I cannot.

Can anyone help me with this please?

Many thanks,

Philip Newman

Maybe one or the other was already married.

There is a Martha Lucas marrying a Samuel Neat..

Marriage
Samuel Neat ~ Martha Lucas
Year 1857 Qtr Dec Dist: W Ham Vol 4a Pg 20

1861 census HO107/1062 Folio 91
Samuel Neat Head 31 b Walthamstow, Essex...Labourer
Martha Neat Wife 25 b Barking, Essex
Arthur Neat Son 5 b London, Middlesex
Samuel Neat Son 3 b Woodford, Essex
Woodford, Essex

By the 1871 census Samuel Neat is living with his mother and still married.

1871 RG10/1637 Folio 100
Mary Neat Head 77 Wid b Hadstock, Essex...Laundress
Samuel Neat Son 42 M b Walthamstow, Essex...Ag Lab
Eliza Neat Dau 44 unm b Walthamstow, Essex...Laundress
Samuel Neat Grandson 13 b Woodford, Essex
Horn Lane, Woodford, Essex


Sue

Hmmm, interesting. The date's of Martha's birth and birthplace match up, so this is something to investigate!

Thanks - any more leads still much appreciated.

Phil

Hi again,

I've done some more research on your findings. I can't find a marriage for a Martha Lucas and John Henry Moore either.

Although the dates and places match up for Martha Lucas.

If this story is probably, Arthur Neat, the son of Samuel and Martha, born 1856, London Middlesex, may then become Arthur Moore, as does Martha Moore? The dates match up as does the place.

However, following the dates for Arthur Neat, it may be apparent that he actually went on to live as Arthur Neat.

Thanks anyway!

Phil

Hello again,

It may be that Martha's name might be different. It may be Maria Martha, and the surname either Lucas or Gist (or variant).

I still can't find a suitable marriage between John Moore, for the dates given, between 1851 and 1881.

I think there is enough clues here to believe this is the same Martha.

The reference's given for the 1861 census also indicates how close the Moore and Neat families lived to one another.

1861 census RG9/1062 Folio 100
John Moore Head 54 Widr b Woodford, Essex...Agricultral labourer
John Moore Son 24 unm b Woodford, Essex...Agricultral labourer
Mary Ann Moore Dau 19 unm b Woodford, Essex
Sarah E Moore Son 16 b Woodford, Essex
Woodford, Essex

Sue

Hello again,

yes they are pretty close! I've ordered a few certificates which should help clarify the picture a little bit - or make it even more murky!

Thanks,

Phil

Its unlikely you will find a marriage certificate for John Moore and Martha Lucas.

Sue

Don't you just love it when there's plenty of twists & turns!!

Well it's certainly put the cat among the pidgeons! Up until now I thought this family line was pretty straight-laced! Very interesting, I look forward to the certificates arriving!

Many thanks for all your help.

Phil

PS I found a Maria Girt marrying a John Moore in 1856 Stepney London. This may also provide another clue.

Hi,

I found the birth registration I was after. It is registered as Arthur Thomas Lucas, and the birthday is absolutely correct (5th Dec 1855).

There is no father listed, hence the surname is the mother's maiden name.

So it has all been tied up. There are a few lingering questions, i.e. how did she fall pregnant.

She was living at 7 Gloucester Street, Stepney. I don't know much about this property, but it is likely she is a lodger, as the 1851 and 1861 show her with family or married.

I wonder who the father is, and what happened to her in those 10 years!?