I'm looking for information on the children of George William Shaw (b. @ 1860) and Hannah (Chamkin?) of St. Albans, Hertfordshire.
The children's names are: George (b. @ 1882), Frederick Harold Hugh (b. 16 Jun 1884), Emily (b. @1887), and Alvetta(?) (b. @1888).
The 1891 census shows the family together and living on Bernard Street in St. Albans. In 1901, still on Bernard Street, Hannah is married to Charles Maskett, and the eldest son, George, is out of the home.
My great-grandfather, Frederick Harold Hugh Shaw emmigrated to Canada some time between 1901 and 1910. I'd love to find out what happened to the rest of his family. Any information would be greatly appreciated!! :-)

hello

a copy of this, available on line at £7 [sterling] inclusive will show mums maiden name

Births Sep 1884
Shaw Frederick Harold H
St. Alban's
3a
514

Just saw your message and had a look for what I could find -
George Shaw married Hannah Parkins June qtr 1881 St Albans Reg. 3a 575. In the 1901 census Hannah says she is from Leverstock Green(10 min from St Albans)registers in Hemel Hempstead. Her birth is registered Jun 1859 H Hempstead 3a 318.
Their children are also to be found on Free BMD. between 1882 and 1889. If you want details just ask. I thought it interesting though - the child's name you weren't sure of -'Alvetta(?)' was in fact registered as Edith Alnetta in Mar 1889 3a 550. The other girl registered as Emily Priscilla 1886. and George William 1882.
You also say you are not sure of Frederick Harold's immigration date - Have you looked at the 1911 Canadian Census. It would give his year of immigration(I know this because I followed my husbands immigration to B.C. in Nov 1910.) Funnily enough his first name was also Frederick.
Do you know what province he emmigrated to? Then I or yourself could have a look for him on the census in Canada.
George William Shaw appears to have married in Sep 1908 either to Mary Thatcher or Ellen E. Dimmock in St St. Albans Reg 3 a 1500 (you could send for marriage cert and see which one)
Hope this helps - Pam

Hi Pam,

Thank you very much for your reply! :-) I appreciate the effort you've put into helping me locate information on this family. On the off-chance you're interested in helping sort out a bit of a mystery, here's my dilemma:

The earliest Canadian document I can find for Frederick Harold Hugh Shaw is his marriage certificate from Toronto, Sep 30th 1911. On it, his father is listed as George William Shaw, whose profession is listed as "Dry cleaner". Frederick's mother is listed as Hannah CHAMKIN.

There are a few different Harold Shaws listed in the 1911 census, but none provide enough information to be positively identified as the Frederick I'm looking for.

The next document I have is Fred's Attestation Paper from july 1915. On it, Fred's birthday is listed as 16 June 1884, and his birthplace is listed as St. Alban's, Herts, England.

I'll note here, that my Fred had 3 children: a son named Harold Hugh, a daughter named Edith Annetta, and another daughter named Emily Priscilla.

Now on to the English census...
The family in the 1891 English census is George William Shaw(correct), they have a son named Frederick Harold Hugh who has the right birth date/place.(correct on all counts) They have two daughters that have (almost!)identical names to my Frederick's daughters. (which could explain the choice of names for my Fred's daughters. And this Fred's mother's first name is a match for the Fred I'm looking for.

So there are several reasons why this family seems to be a likely match for the one I'm looking for, thus my curiousity about them! :-D

The discrepancy comes with the mother's maiden name of Parkins, which is clearly not what is written on his marriage certificate, nor is it the name that has been passed down through oral family history.

I noticed that in the 1901 English census, Hannah is married to someone else. I haven't definatively located George William Sr. in the 1901 census, nor have I managed to locate a likely death registration for him, so I don't have any idea what happened to him. Hannah re-married- could George William have done the same??

I have yet to find a plausible explanation for the discrepancy in maiden surnames for Fred's mother, and Chamkin appears to be quite a rare surname in England. Even if Parkins turns out to be the correct surname for my Frederick's mother, Parkins and Chamkin are different enough to not be accidentally confused for one another so I would still be intensely curious how the surname Chamkin ended up being associated with Hannah if the name is wrong...

I don't know what year Fred came to Canada, but if he's the one we've found in St. Alban's, then it was sometime during the decade between 1901 and 1911. (Rumour has it Fred had bought a ticket for Australia, but his complexion was dark enough that the vessel's captain told him that Australia's "whites only" policy would almost certainly prevent him from getting off the boat when they arrived, so Fred traded his Australia ticket for a ticket to Canada instead...).

Hi!- Found Frederick Harold Shaw on the Canadian 1911 Census
see below:
Home / 1911 / Ontario / Toronto West / 38 Toronto / page 8 /line 6/domicile 89
Interestingly he was quite easy to identify,because of what you said re:dry cleaners and tailors.
He is registered Frederick Shaw (not Harold-did he use Harold at a later date?), single, living at 535 Dupont St. Toronto West It states he was born in 1884 (as usual it looks as tho' the census taker did some bad math and gave his age as 25 - it happened a lot) so he was in fact 27 - all correct so far. It also states he immigrated from England in 1907. It says his type of occupation is: Cleaning and it says he works in a Tailor Shop.
As regards his marriage giving his Mother's name as Chamkin, my husbands grandfather ALSO gave an incorrect maiden name for his mother on his wedding cert. I think it is because they were young men when they came out and as young men they didn't pay attention to family stuff. I think you can be pretty sure of that marriage to Hannah Parkins- the only other possiblity was that Hannah has been married before and Parkins was a married name - tho' I don't see evidence of that.

Just another note on the family in 1891. Though Hannah is listed as being married - husband George Snr. doesnt' appear to be there, would he have been away or perhaps already sick and in hospital? It's possible considering Hannah does remarry within 4 years. Do you know where George Snr. was born?
Pam

Hi Pam,

The Hannah in the Census is listed as "Hannah Parkins Shaw formerly Champkins" on the birth registration for Frederick, so this is the right family.

I have no idea what happened to George Sr., as I see that he was listed and then sort of -crossed out- of the 1891 Census and by the 2nd quarter of 1895, Hannah had remarried to Charles Muskett.

I'd like to discover what happened to Fred's siblings...

:-)

Hi Pepper?
I have an answer for the Parkins/Champkin discrepency for Hannah...Hannah was actually born to Priscilla Parkins June qtr.1859 Hemel Hempstead 3a 318, so was legally a Parkins. Her mother Priscilla Parkins then married Richard Champkins Aug. 2 1862 @ Leverstock Green Herts.
On the 1861 census you can see Hannah with her mother and grandparents at Leverstock Green. Then in 1871 you can see Hannah with her Mother Priscilla and father/stepfather? Richard Champkins, so Hannah probably did go by the name Champkins, but married under her legal name Parkins. Also on the 1871 are four other children born to Priscilla: James 8, Frederick 6, Kate 4, Alfred 2 all Champkins.
Unfortunately, Iam still unable to find a definite birth for Hannah's husband George William Shaw nor a likely death on Free BMD.
As to Fred's siblings - it looks as though Emily Priscilla(now we know this name was Hannah's mother's name) married late in 1922. An Emily P.Shaw married a Charles R. Jefkins Mar qtr St Albans reg 3a 11 34. I'm almost certain this is Emily Priscilla. If you order this marriage cert.you can confirm.
Fred's older brother George can be seen in London @ Wellington Barracks St.Geo.Hanover Square and is a soldier aged 20 yrs. Can't find anything on Edith Alnetta.
Bye for now - if you have anything else you would like me to look for let me know.
Pam
p.s. If you want a scan of 1861 & 1871 census I can send to you.

Just a thought - I have seen widow's stating they are married and entering husbands name - only to cross it out once they realize that the census is asking their married state not if they were married...so going on the theory she was already widowed-there is a death of a George William Shaw on Free BMD
Dec qtr 1887 Biggleswade Reg.3b 227. Biggleswade Registration district covers towns and villages that are minutes from Hitchin. If George William was working in the areas around Hitchin, his death could well have been recorded in Biggleswade. The last child Alnetta could have been born after his death.
Pam

Hi Robin

We have been in touch before regarding Hannah CHAMPKIN (daughter of Richard and Priscilla), but I now have information on Hannah and George SHAW's daughter, Edith Alnetta (Alnetta/Nettie/Nett). She was christened on 22 April 1889 in St. Albans, Herts (died 1955 in Uxbridge, Middlesex) and in 1917 in Paddington, Middlesex married Victor Prince SEAMAN (28 Jul 1896 Kensington, London - 1964 Uxbridge, Middlesex) (son of Edward Robert SEAMAN and Alice Frances READ). Victor and Edith had 3 children - Kenneth Bernard, baker, (09 April 1928 Brentford, Middlesex - Aug 1998 Hillingdon, Middlesex); Lionel Victor, electirician, (1930 Brentford - 1965 Paddington)(died quite young of throat cancer) and John F (1933 Marylebone). John emigrated to Canada in the late 1950s/early 60s.

I notice that someone has replied with a possible marriage for Edith's brother, George, to an Ellen E DIMMOCK in 1908 St. Albans, Herts. Ellen DIMMOCK was my Great Aunt from a completely different side of my family and she did, indeed, marry a George William SHAW (born 1880? in St. Albans, Herts), but at this stage I am unaware of his parents. Did you, or anyone, find out about Edith's brother, George's wife and family. My Great Aunt and Uncle, George and Ellen SHAW, had a son George (1909, St. Albans, Herts). Could they also be connected to your family, too!

Sue