Ayre - Family History & Genealogy Message Board

Re: AYRE Whitby Yorks.

travellingbushie — 2009-09-09 12:17:13Z

I'm looking for information on George McKenzie bn 1848. His father Charles McKenzie who at the time of George's marriage was a Land Stewart.

George was in a seaman (merchant service).

I haven't found either in any of the census records.

Any help would be great.

Prue

Re: AYRE Whitby Yorks.

grendav2001 — 2009-09-03 12:29:36Z

the marriage at st james' church, west hartlepool, on 03 february 1895:

charles wilson mckenzie, age 22 and a stonemason.
son of george mckenzie, a sailor.
33 tower street in west hartlepool.

phillis ann oliver, age 21 and a spinster.
daughter of thomas oliver a pattern maker.
cleveland road, west hartlepool.

witnesses were john george watt and mary ellen johnson.

--------

the marriage at holy trinity church, hartlepool, on 28 february 1920:

frederick james cuthbertson, age 22, and a draughtsman.
son of george wilson cuthbertson, a contractor.
12 moor terrace, hartlepool.

phillis mary mckenzie, age 23 and a spinster.
daughter of charles wilson mckenzie, deceased.
46 corporation road, hartlepool.

witnesses were douglas coombes and emmaline mckenzie.

Re: AYRE Whitby Yorks.

travellingbushie — 2009-08-17 10:07:25Z

Hello Robert
My 2x Great Grandmother was Elizabeth Ayre bn 1849 sister to your Isaac Ayre. Their father was Isaac Bedlington Ayre bn 1825 married to Ann Wilson.
Elizabeth married George McKenzie & had one child Charles Wilson McKenzie. Charles married Phyllis Ann Oliver in Hartlepool 1895. Their daughter Phyllis Mary McKenzie (married Frederick Cuthbertson in Hartlepool in 1920) was my grandmother.
I was born in New Zealand in 1955 and my grandparents, mother (Freda Cuthbertson) and sister Phyllis immigrated to NZ in late 1940's and early 1950's from Hartlepool. Two of the family remained in Hartlepool.

I would be interested in any information, especially earlier than Isaac Bedlington Ayre. I also do not have much information on George McKenzie - I know he was a seaman (merchant service).

Prue Angell
Sydney Australia

Re: Ayre Family Research

jennyball63 — 2009-01-21 14:16:09Z

I am also (with some help from other family members) researching Hannah and Charles Ayre. b. England and settled in Australia.
Please reply as I'm sure we can help you.
Cheers Jenny M

Re: MacIlvennie/McIlvenna

brianpiggot1962 — 2008-12-05 16:41:19Z

I believe we are related thru thomas mcIlvenna ( Margaret McLennan) . Thomas had a brother James who was my ggreatgrandfather

Re: MacIlvennie, McIlvenna

brianpiggot1962 — 2008-12-05 16:40:10Z

hello

I am also looking at my McIlvenna/McIlvennie side and we have the same people. Thomas 1840 was the brother of my ggreat grandfather James Mcilvennie . they were both sons of Mary Jane McKerley and James McIlvenna/McIlvennie , Irish Immigrants to the Maryhill district in Glasgow .

MacIlvennie/McIlvenna

grgwlcx — 2008-12-05 16:37:44Z

My family: Born in Scotland Martha 1881, Thomas 1884,
William 1887,John 1891, Margaret 1894, Mary Jane 1889,
Robert 1900

Father Thomas born 1841, Mother Margaret McLennan 1850.
Thomas worked in coal mines, went to Canada in 1900

Re: AYRE family - Peters Marland, North Devon, England

pookster17 — 2008-10-18 03:00:26Z

oh yes sorry i am;
my bad.

Re: AYRE family - Peters Marland, North Devon, England

JanKingshott32 — 2008-10-17 19:28:39Z

I assumed that there was a link to Devon, as you were on a thread specific to Peters Marland in Devon....

Re: AYRE family - Peters Marland, North Devon, England

pookster17 — 2008-10-17 19:19:37Z

Sweet..
Umm i have no ideaa
I dont live in the UK though, i live in Canada lol.

Re: AYRE family - Peters Marland, North Devon, England

JanKingshott32 — 2008-10-17 16:51:34Z

Hi

I'd be glad to help you out, but there are many AYRE families in the UK, most of which are not related. Do you know that there is a link with Devon?

Re: AYRE family - Peters Marland, North Devon, England

pookster17 — 2008-10-03 13:33:48Z

Hey,
I would really like to know who my ancestors are.
I come from the "Ayre" Familyy,
I live in Ontario, Canada with my mom and dad (my dad is an Ayre), along with my aunt wendy ayre and my grandparents Lloyd and Arline Ayre, but I dont know who came before my grand father.. So i was wondering if you could kind of help me out a little?

Re: AYRE family - Peters Marland, North Devon, England

middlemarsh — 2008-10-03 13:32:49Z

I too am researching the Ayres in Peters Marland. My grandmother was Tryphena Ayre b.1871 in P M and she had 13 siblings that we know of.
Tryphena's parents were William Ayre b. <1823> in PM and Thirza Sanders b.1825.
William's father was William Ayre a farmer b 1793 who may have been married to an Ann Jewell.

Does any of this tie in with any of your family?

I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours

Carolyn Waite

Re: AYRE family - Peters Marland, North Devon, England

2008-10-03 13:31:54Z

I have a William and Mary Ayre from Heaton Punchardon, which is near Barnstaple in North Devon, they had a daughter called Eliza Ann who was born in Braunton in 1859.

Re: grandmother's maiden name

rts07041 — 2008-04-03 13:53:28Z

Sounds like we share a grandmother. I assume you are John's daughter. If so, I'm your cousin Robert. Don't think we've ever met.

Re: Dorothy Ayre

ShirleyN63 — 2007-12-16 06:07:40Z

The Dorothy in the initial query is: Dorothy Ayre b. 7/23/1861 Houghton le Spring, County Durham, New Harrington, W. Harrington, England; d. 3/23/1934.

Married first: Thomas Anthony Bainbridge b. c 1854; d. 1/31/1880 Hobbletrot, Plawsworth, Chester le Street, County Durham, England

Married second: Oates Henry Shaw b. circa Sep. 1858 Lancaster, England; d. after 1910 Chicago, Cook Co., Illinois

Daughter of: Cuthbert John Ayre b. circa May 1835 Parish of All Saints in Newcastle upon Tyne, England; d. 5/17/1919 Bureau Co., Illinois

Eleanor Alexander b. 6/20/1838 Seghill, Tynemouth, Earsdon, County Northumberland; d. 2/24/1909 Spring Valley, Bureau Co., Illinois.

If anyone can add information to this line, I would love to hear from you.

Shirley (Brickey) Nelson

Re: Ayre in Co Durham

blueeyedgal9 — 2007-09-22 10:38:14Z

Hi Dawn,
George Ayre + Ann Hilton were my
g.g.g.g.grandparents, my direct line goes

1.George Ayre = Ann Hilton
2.George Ayre(1797) = Charlotte Cordner(1792)
3.Richard Ayre(1836) = Elizabeth Healy(c.1861)
4.George Ayre(1877) Dublin,(later changed his name to John Carr) married a Florence Mary Benford (when in his eighties).
They had 4 children together 2 died as children,
There oldest son George William Carr was my grandad.

This side of tree has been very confusing plus very interesting to do.
I'm in Northamptonshire,
We heard that Richard Ayre (1836) had a military funeral
and at some point there were photographs of this, relations have seen this photo many years ago - but now seems to have dissappeared,
Would love to know if any of the Ayre clan have seen or may have a copy of the military funeral of Richard Ayre, he died in 1916.
And also if there any photographs of any of George Ayre = Charlotte Cordners other children.

many thanks

tracey

Re: Ayre in Co Durham

gordonbelll — 2007-09-08 22:16:19Z

Hello,The two Thomas Ayre,s in my family are Thomas 1775 & 1816 my G G Grandmother was born in 1818 Jane, Durham City.
Went to a talk about paper mills last week there were mills in Sunderland & Newcastle and I think the Ayre,s worked in both.

Re: Ayre in Co Durham

book2corner — 2007-09-08 21:07:03Z

hi by fluke just looking through and saw thomas from Hett in your posting. he is in my direct line would love to kind of somehow link a bit on this.
thanks
R

Re: Joseph Garth Ayre and Sarah Ayre from Dewsbury

grahambirch20 — 2007-06-13 17:33:41Z

Do you have any connection with the midgleys of manchester who were involved in the textile industry in the 1880s

Re: Ayre in Co Durham

gordonbelll — 2007-05-28 18:08:45Z

My link with the Ayre Family is Jane Ayre b.1818 Durham City she married Thomas Humphries b.1819 Ramshaw Auckland,
Date of marriage 09/02/1839 Kirk Merrington Auckland,
Her father,s name was Thomas Ayre he is down as a Paper Maker they were all living in Hett village my G.Grandfather was born in Hett Thomas Humphries b.1841.Jane (Ayre)Humphries ended up living in Castle Eden had a shop there.
Gordon.

Re: Ayre in Co Durham

pompeyjma — 2007-04-07 13:16:26Z

Hi there : I am currently researching the AYRE family which was centred upon Stockton-on-Tees from [ at least ] 1808 - present time.

I cannot match specific names with your base info'.

There were a very large number of people called AYRE in 1800-2000 in that area. My family were Tallow Chandlers from 1808 onwards. Please contact if you need to look at my emerging "tree". JOHN AYRE jma.nci@btinternet.com

Re: Elsie Ayrey

lamag50 — 2007-03-15 05:18:54Z

James Alderson who married Jane Mafham and then Clara Robinson fits into our family tree. James being a great great grandfather on the Alderson side.
All that I have on the Ayrey side is William Ayrey born in Bradford(1869) and an older brother Robert who remained in England and lived at Newcastle Upon Tyne. Their father's name was Robert Ayrey (born 1831)AT Keighley was married to Mary Midgley.
Most of the postcards I have have the last name of Ayrey, but afew have Ayre and one has Airey.
I do have about 80 photos from about the 1880 to 1920 eras, but most are unidentified. One photo is of T Bates.
Laura Gartner nee Ayrey

Re: AYRE Whitby Yorks.

robertayre_1 — 2007-02-10 20:11:22Z

Hi Doris
My family originate from the whitby Ayres. Isaac Ayre b 1857 who married charlotte elizabeth duck moved to hartlepool where my family mostly remain to this day. My branch is from Isaacs son Wilson Ayre who was born in whitby in 1883. Issac Died in Hartlepool in 1915, Charlotte died in Hartlepool in 1895. My Grandfather Robert Septimus Ayre Died in Hartlepool in 1972. My father, Robert Ayre who is in his late 60's remains in Hartlepool.
I was born 1968 and I live with my Family in Douglas Isle of Man. My only brother, Mark born in 1975 remains in Hartlepool.
Hope this may be of some help

Robert Wilson Ayre

Re: william ayre

marytweedco — 2006-12-08 03:26:03Z

Hi. My name is Willis Ayres. I live near Pittsburgh, Pa. I just started researching my ancestry and after questioning some family members I looked things up on the internet. I researched my grandfathers name along with my great grandfathers and great grandmothers name and to my surprize my grandfathers name came back as William Ayre Which I always thought his name was Willis Ayres. The "s" must have been added starting with my Fathers generation. My Greatgrandfathers name is Arnold Ayre. My grandfathers name is William Ayre. They came to the United States From Ireland. They were scott-Irish. My grandfather was born April 17, 1882 and Died in November, 1963 and lived in Carnegie a suburb of Pittsburgh, Pa. Can anyone give me some insight on this. Thank-you.

Brothers Fred & Stanley AYRE, b. abt. 1906 & 1908 at Piatt Co, Illinois

magrif — 2006-11-24 16:20:03Z

Searching for descendants to share family history on the family of John C. AYRE who married Carrie SACKRITER - they lived at Piatt Co, Illinois with sons, Frederick -b.abt 1906 & Stanley- b.abt 1908. Carrie died young in 1914, then Fred was remarried a few years later to Ora. They lived at least thru 1920 at Piatt Co, Illinois - Appreciate any contacts - Thanks, Allan Griffith, Bloomington, IL - Email: magrif@verizon.net

Re: Brothers Fred & Stanley AYRE, b. abt. 1906 & 1908 at Piatt Co, Illinois

magrif — 2006-11-24 16:20:03Z

Carrie, Great news you offer. Email me direct at: magrif@verizon.net I'll anxiously await your information and I'm glad to share my many years of research also - on both the Sackriter & Stuckey lines. - Allan Griffith, Bloomington, IL

Thomas, Lancelot, ThomasDawson, Thomas Fredrick Ayre in Hett, CLS, sedgefield.

book2corner — 2006-10-28 21:49:15Z

hi at last beginning to get tree going!
I notice that my names are appearing on the board but could do with some flesh on the bones if anyone has anything they could help me with. Still a newbie to it all but learning very fast!!
Ok so far got to Thomas Ayre/Jane Ayre Hett their son being Lancelot Ayre married Isabella Shields (i think) their son Thomas Fredrick Ayre married my gran Mary Scarr in 1938 in Sedgefield. Now I am missing a lot of birth, baptism, death dates for some of these but the main one I am hunting up is Thomas Fredrick Ayre. I have very little on him. He was a male nurse at the mental hospital in Sedgefield. He left gran around 1945ish thats as much as I know. Would love to know anything about him.
I am also intrigued by an entry on board saying they had a photo of a thomas Ayre with his brood. I am wondering if it is the same Thomas as I would be most interested to see what they all looked like!!
I hope that someone can help me I would be most appreciative.
Rach

Re:OOPS missed out Thomas Dawson Ayre connection!

book2corner — 2006-10-28 21:49:15Z

Sorry realised made mistake Thomas Dawson was the son of Lancelot Ayre and the father of Thomas Fredrick Ayre
Sorry!
Rach

Re: Elsie Ayrey

terrygreenwood28 — 2006-10-15 20:58:43Z

James Alderson b 1829 firstly married Jane Mafham b 1833.
Then he married Clara Robinson b 1842, daughter Elizabeth b 1869 married William Ayrey b 1869 Bradford.

I have my tree at genesreunited.

Please email me directly avtrade@telus.net

Golda Ayre, b. Feb 1882, sister Anna, b. Oct 1876, ch. of Richard/Delia Ayre, of Piatt Co., IL

margerice1 — 2006-10-12 05:54:06Z

I have two original studio photographs of “Golda Ayre” and her sister “Anna Ayre”, which I’d like to get back to descendants or family members. Photos were taken in about 1900. Photo of Golda was taken in Monticello (Piatt Co.) IL. Golda looks to be about 20 in her photo, while Anna appears to be a bit older, possibly upper 20s. Anna’s photo is smaller, and she is wearing a fancy hat.

I found Golda in the 1900 census for Monticello (Piatt Co.), with DOB Feb 1882, and sister of Anna, with DOB Oct 1876. In the 1910 census for Monticello, I found Anna, single, age 44, living with her sister Elizabeth, age 41.

Get back to me at margerice@prodigy.net if you are related to Golda or Anna Ayre.

Bertha Ayre, b.1873, wife of Richard; and Alice Ayre, b.1878, wife of Charlie, of Piatt Co., IL

margerice1 — 2006-10-12 05:50:10Z

I have an original studio photograph of “Bertha Ayre, wife of Dick Ayre; and Alice Ayre, wife of Charlie Ayre”, which I’d like to get back to descendants or family members. Photo was taken in about 1925-1930, and each looks to be about age 50.

I found Richard Ayre (40) and wife Bertha (36) in the 1910 Monticello (Piatt Co.) census – and Charles Ayre (48) and wife Alice (42) in the 1920 Monticello census.

Get back to me at margerice@prodigy.net if you are related to Bertha or Alice Ayre.

Re: Joseph Garth Ayre and Sarah Ayre from Dewsbury

maeveh1 — 2006-10-03 14:45:14Z

IThis family is on my family tree. I descend from Midgley Ayre an uncle of Joseph who was the son of William born in Colne.
It is likely that Joseph Ayre was in France to advise and work within textile industry .
There was considerable interchange of this kind in the 19th century when skills were passed on to French manufacturers.

Maeve Hawkins
(nee Catherine Maeve Ayre)

Re: Ayre Family Research

lssnydern — 2006-01-19 08:01:38Z

I am reseaching Ayre Family in USA with a mining history. My grandfather was Calvert Leiby Ayre, his father James Ayre.

Re: Ayre family, Durham

HelenOram — 2005-11-17 12:38:01Z

Hello Jean,
This may be the family of Lydia HUNTER. It is all from indexes, so you will need to view the original records for further details.

Thomas HUNTER married Ann JACKSON 6 Dec 1817 Auckland St Helen (ASH) DUR

Baptisms to Thomas & Ann HUNTER:

Margaret HUNTER at ASH 27 Sept 1818
John HUNTER at ASH 11 March 1821
Thomas HUNTER at ASH 9 Oct 1825
Lydia HUNTER at ASH 25 Feb 1827
Jackson HUNTER at ASH 24 Dec 1829
William HUNTER at ASH 28 Feb 1832
George HUNTER at Shildon DUR 19 Dec 1839

Hope this helps.

Re: Ayre family, Durham

HelenOram — 2005-11-17 12:38:01Z

Hello Jean,
Shildon is near the Aucklands - and if she was not born there but moved there as a young child it could explain the discrepancy.
The info came from a fiche index - see

http://www.original-indexes.demon.co.uk/

There are some census transcripts here (pay per view)

http://www.durhamrecordsonline.com/index.php

Regards,

Re: Brothers Fred & Stanley AYRE, b. abt. 1906 & 1908 at Piatt Co, Illinois

2005-11-16 05:06:42Z

Hi,
Fred Ayre was my grandfather. My mother is Virginia Ann Ayre his daughter. I am named after my great grandmother Carrie. My mom and Grandpa Fred traced the whole family history back for many many generations. I am sure my mom could be of great help to you.

Carrie

Re: william ayre

2005-09-03 17:54:55Z

Hello Jess

Seen your reply I am quite excited by the fact you have some of our Family's history. The Ayre family are a funny lot, written to quite a few but they seem very insular.Can we exchange information?

Cheers
Anth

William Ayre ~ Banished to America in 1716

BasketLady420 — 2005-07-30 21:02:48Z

AYRE, William
Jacobite captured at Preston. Transported on "Friendship", master Michael Mankin, from Liverpool 24 May 1716 to Maryland. Sold to Aaron Rawlings, Maryland, 20 August 1716.
(SP/C) (HM)

I am not related to this person, I am just passing on this information, which comes from a book titled "Scots Banished to the American Plantations 1650-1775" by David Dobson. Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc. Baltimore. 1983. pg. 6.
Joyce

Re: Ayre family, Durham

acorn61 — 2005-06-14 19:55:52Z

Hi Helen and thanks ever so for this info. It was really good of you to take the trouble and yes, it has helped tremendously. It looks like the right family. Lydia named her sons John Thomas, William Jackson and George Robert. (family names by the look of it). Her eldest daughter was called Margaret. I do have Lydia as being born in Shildon - is this near Auckland?

Where did you get these details - online? or do you have some kind of software. Have found some sites e.g. Teesdale indexes, but they only give b.m.d's - no censuses, or at least I haven't found any. Been trying ages to find Lydia's family. It's great when the brick wall gives way!.

Cheers Jean.

Ayre family, Durham

acorn61 — 2005-06-09 21:02:20Z

Looking for information on Ralph Ayre (b Sunderland c 1821, a blacksmith, father John Ayre) who married Lydia Hunter (b Shildon c1825, father Thomas Hunter). Have no info on either Ralph or Lydia's mother. In the 1871 census they lived in Thompson Street, Stockton on Tees. Their children were:

John T. m. (?)
William J. m. (?)
George Robert m. Charlotte Elizabeth Lonsdale
Mary Jane m. George Hamilton
Sarah Elizabeth m. Thomas Bateman
Frances Annie m. Arthur Woffendon
Isabella m. Thomas William Pritchard
Margaret Ann m. John Sinclair Jack(son?)

The 1871 census is the last mention I can find of either Ralph (50) or Lydia (46). In the 1881 census the family, minus Sara and John, live in Dobing Street, Stockton. Cannot find Ralph and Lydia anywhere.

Any help would be appreciated.
Cheers Jean.

Re: william ayre

2005-04-16 13:04:20Z

I have this family history if you would like to contact me at jess_ayre@hotmail.com

Re: Ayre Family Research

rwinterscheidt — 2004-11-29 12:17:51Z

Hello Judy

I too am researching Ayre family, I have a Henry Francis Ayre who married in Tamworth in 1879. I beleive he came to Australia from England.

Do you know if there is any relationship?

Re: Ayre Family Research

rwinterscheidt — 2004-11-29 12:14:18Z

Judy

Ancestors of Hannah Ayre born about 1670

pusch — 2004-07-02 17:21:37Z

Does anyone have any information about the ancestors of Hannah Ayre born about 1670 place unknown.

She married Ebenezer Belknap time and place unknown.

Their daughter Mary Belknap was born 1/13/1695 in Haverhill, MA and married Nathaniel Merrill in 1716 in Haverhill, MA.

I'll appreciated any help or direction.

Bruce Pusch

Researching: Elizabeth (Isabel) ANDERSON born 1621, Hannah AYRE born abt 1670, Nicholas BAKER born 1760, Ebenezer BELKNAP born abt 1670, ? BEVINGTON born abt 1730, Ann (BALKSON?) BLAKNON born abt 1751, Ruth BRICE born abt 1760, William BURRINGTON born 1637, Elizabeth CABLE born abt 1600, William CADMAN born abt 1620, Adam CLARK born 1681, Ann (Annie) CONLEY born 11/9/1819, Elizabeth (SNYDER?) CROMBAUGH born 1809, Robert CULBERTSON born bet 1720-1725, Elizabeth DUTTON born abt 1820, Andrew J. (FORESTER?) FORRESTER born abt 1840, Thomas FORSYTHE born abt 1740, Richard W. JONES born 1762, Peter KINNEY born abt 1620, John Henry KNOUSE born 1/21/1808, Clayton B. KNOX born abt 1868, Lorenz Joseph MAYER born abt 1830, Elizabeth MERCHANT born abt 1760, Nancy Jane MILLER born 10/6/1840, Paul MILLER born abt 1820, Nancy PARKER born abt 1740, Matthew PATRICK born 1702, John PEOPLES born abt 1760, Johann PUSCH born abt 1850, and Carl Gustave PUSCH BORN 1841, Sarah SEALY born abt 1724, Eunice SMITH born abt 1780, ? STEDMAN BURR born abt 1610 and Jacob WHITE born abt 1730.
Ô¿Ô

Re: Ancesters of John E. Ayre 1863, Eng. - 1935, Phila., PA USA

2004-05-05 23:10:46Z

I think your John Ayre may be the brother of my Great Grandmother Dorothy Ayre. If so, John was born in Gateshead, Durham, England (3rd quarter, 1864). There was another living brother, Cuthbert, who ended up in California. Dorothy lived in Spring Valley, Illinois. Their parents were Cuthbert J.and Eleanor/Elloner (Alexander) Ayre. They had nine children, but only 3 lived. Have a little more information if you think this is a match.

Ayre(s) Samuel, Gerald, of Newfoundland

PatWatMor — 2004-03-31 18:42:59Z

Looking for info on the Ayre(s) family in Newfoundland, Gerald drowned at sea in 1918, he was married to Jane Maude Burton, their daughter Susie Rose (Rose) was a babe when Gerald died she was born in 1918. Any info would be greatly appreciaed. Pat

Ayre of West Derby, Liverpool

Maryblank666 — 2003-12-06 18:15:01Z

A 16 year old James Heir (labourer) popped up on the 1881 census, living with his grandmother Ellen Lunt (nee Richardson)(74 years old at the time) in Deysbrook Lane, West Derby. Have managed to identify that he is actually James Ayre, whose father also James Ayre married Hannah Lunt in 30/10/1862. Hannah's mother Ellen was my GGGrandmother and I have quite a lot of info if anybody is interested of her descendants.
I would love to hear from any Ayres who are connected.

looking for my family

2003-12-01 20:20:56Z

Im looking for an Olive Ayre that lived in Wakefield West Yorkshire.
I believe she was living with a Stephen Marks at the time . but moved to london.
I have a brother called John Anthony Ayre
If anyones got any information that can help me find them i would be grateful for any help

Re: Elsie Ayrey

jackiepar9157753 — 2003-09-12 17:35:57Z

Hello my name,s Jackie.
I have a Ayrey , Pilley , Chadderton connection
Gladys May Pilley m Frank Ayrey 4 Apr 1917
Gladys d o b 25 May 1895 father
Henry George Pilley d o b 1856 on the high seas
m Elizabeth T Chadderton 27 Jul 1876
Elizabeth d o b 4 May 1858
I have more on all if interested
Ayery,s from Yorkshire , Pilley,and Chadderton,s from Manchester area,s , would be intersted to know where Elsie comes into it all for now Jackie