Hooper - Family History & Genealogy Message Board

Re: The Hooper Family in Somerset

slcatterall — 2012-05-24 21:34:19Z

I too have noticed an anomoly with the Shoreham text. I am convinced it is the right family as the coincidence with regard to apothecary chemist and surgeons is too strong however when cross checking on the Hooper- Linley genealogy website they do not have the same Benjamin Hooper although there is a reference to Sir Edward Hooper , The plot thickens !!

Re: The Hooper Family in Somerset

aldwoolley — 2012-05-24 06:58:58Z

I've looked into all of this and its been on my mind since the weekend. There is one flaw with the author of the Shoreham text. There is no way in this world that Benjamin's father could've outlived his children. Totally impossible. The father would have to be born at the lastest in around 1705 or 1710 to be old enough to be Benjamin's father.

Secondly this is how we would be related to Sir Edward Hooper:

Sir Edward Hooper

I

Son ( born around c 1630)

I

Grandson ( born around c 1655)

I

Great Grandson ( born around c 1685)

I

Great Great Grandson John Hooper ( born around c 1710)

I

Benjamin Hooper

I'm in the process of sorting all of this out and finding out who those missing links are etc, but as I mentioned about the person who wrote the Shoreham text has got the wrong year of death for Benjamin's father John.

Alistair

Re: The Hooper Family in Somerset

slcatterall — 2012-05-23 21:27:10Z

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2897405
Just a taster
regards
Sarah

Re: The Hooper Family in Somerset

slcatterall — 2012-05-23 21:15:06Z

Dear Russel , I agree with you regarding the deaths of the children this would not have been uncommon during that period and also considering Elizabeths age when she had the children , plus she must not have been in great health during pregnancy and she literally had one a year for so many years !!! not like we do in this day and age , The Hoopers were obviously a fertile lot considering Margaret had 13 too !!
I will not be able to research now for two weeks as very busy but will let you know as soon as I have more information regarding Sir Edward Hooper and his son and his fascinating history and the links to our family . I feel we are getting closer to solving our puzzle
with reference to a tablet of gold and a unicorns horn that I found recently
best regards
Sarah

Re: The Hooper Family in Somerset

aldwoolley — 2012-05-23 07:05:30Z

I looked into Sir Edward Hooper and that family were of high standing in Cranborne. Trouble is Sir Edward died in 1676, which is 61 years before Benjamin was born and so the link there is impossible, unless there is maybe another generation in between which would make Sir Edward Benjamin's great grandfather.

Even so the Hoopers of Cranborne were extremely wealthy and they owned an estate in Cranborne, which was handed down through the generations. If Benjamin is the great grandson of Sir Edward, then I would of thought he would've had money and wouldn't have had his family settle in a poor part of London. Trouble is we are so used to many parts of London beinmg full of the British rich and famous, that we forget that some of those wealthy places were poor areas before the 1900s.

I know this, because my Mum's family orginates of St Marylebone, which now has houses worth over £1 million on every road, but back in Victorian times and beyond it was a poor area, where large families lived in small houses and the sanitary conditions were awful. Spitalfields would've been just the same as this.

So the question I'm going to ask myself and for the rest of us to ponder is was Benjamin Sir Edward Hooper's great grandson. If so was he a member of the family who was thought not to be worthy of his wealth for some reason or another and had to wait for a few years until his father died to receive it. That would make more sense, as that would be when he acquired Barton House. He must've had an elder brother who was in favour to take over Cranborne or something like that. Makes sense when you think about it. Benjamin IMO must've upset his father in someway to be told "sorry son but your not getting anything right now". He might've got a small allowance which would've gone nowhere in order to feed his family and also to help him start out as a chemist. I know I'm probably in fantasy land here, but that's the only plausible explanation that makes any sense.

Alistair

Re: The Hooper Family in Somerset

violetterussel — 2012-05-23 05:26:00Z

Hi Alistar
I thought about your problem thinking why so many hooper children died maybe this is the likely answer to look into. In that time Sanitation was unheard of Water was unpurified, and raw sewage ran down city streets in open drains. human waste ended up in the local water supply, particularly in cities and towns, and contributed heavily to the spread of disease. Around that era over 12% of all children born would die in their first year, The following diseases were common causes of death in childhood. Whooping cough, diphtheria, dysentery, tuberculosis, typhus, typhoid fever, rickets, chicken pox, measles, scarlet fever, smallpox. Most Doctors medicines were pathetic at best &disease does not discriminate from rich/poor.& it seems like hoopers n rondeaus worked close in church,arts n medicine.This would explain the siblings desire to be in apothecary and medicinal practices, If you look at the parents age rate of death you get a better understanding of wealth, a ripe old age would signify wealth. About flashy wealth, some knights dont need kingly or lordly praise or egotistical title & even take vows of poverty. About margaret, maybe she did something or was not something the family agreed with?.
I would very much like to findout more of Sir edward hooper and his son sarah, the article by Dan Snow about Shoreham and the Hooper family was great.

Russ
PS glad your son is coming to BC for uni! good choice, Great education & beautiful province.

Re: Richard B. Hooper will

thepinkneys1 — 2012-05-22 22:03:58Z

THANK YOU!! I will search in Habersham county. I really appreciate your help -- felt like I had hit another "wall" but you've shown me a way around the bricks! Barbara

Re: Richard B. Hooper will

fscangie — 2012-05-22 16:33:46Z

You are looking in the wrong county. Inferior (Ordinary) Court court minutes show that the estate records were filed 1846 to 1847 in Habersham Co., GA, not in Franklin. His widow and administratrix Adenia died the same year, leaving the estate unadministered, so Matthew B Hooper took over.
I think that microfilms of the court minutes are available at the Family History Library in Salt Lake; maybe they will become available soon at the FamilySearch site.

Richard B. Hooper will

thepinkneys1 — 2012-05-22 15:31:36Z

Does anyone know where I might find copy of the will of Richard B. Hooper, died 1846 in Franklin county Georgia.
Thanks - barbara Pinkney

Susannah Hooper

thepinkneys1 — 2012-05-22 15:29:48Z

I am searching for the name of husband for Susannah Hooper (born about 1790), daughter of Richard Brooks Hooper. I have reason to believe that she was married to Richard Cockerham (b. 1774), son of William Winn Cockerham. They would have lived in Franklin County Georgian in early 1800s and had children Amelia Cockerham McJunkin and Matthew B.H. Cockerham. Does anyone have evidence of this connection between the Hooper and Cockerham families? Thanks - Barbara Pinkney

Re: The Hooper Family in Somerset

aldwoolley — 2012-05-20 16:02:43Z

I now have evidence to suggest that Benjamin and Elisabeth were not living in grandeur, but the opposite. Only a small handful of their children survived and seven children all died in the same house over a period of fourteen years:

Jacob 15 Jun 1771 to 9 Sep 1771
Rebecca 13 Jul 1772 to 1 Sep 1772
Isaac 03 Jul 1773 to 2 Sep 1773
Joseph 21 Jul 1774 to 29 Aug 1774
Samuel 31 Dec 1776 to 14 Jul 1778
Frederick 10 May 1783 to 27 Aug 1783

This leads me to ask questions here, because this doesn't suggest an army of servants which would've included a nurse and governess for the children, or good horse and carriages or a big house to live in. In that area of London, it was at that time and into Victorian Times full of disease if you lived in working class style housing, which this leads me to believe. It's really been upsetting, because I really do want to believe that this whole Spitalfields side of things is true, but when the evidence is shown above, it doesn't look good for giving impressions of a wealthy family who lived a good life style in that area. Quite the opposite.

Sarah I'm not disbelieving you in anyway with what you've found here, but if you look at the childrens' death rates things don't stack up in the wealthy corner here. Apparently the house in Pater Noster Row was in an old city street where clergy used to say The Lords Prayer and is where the Stock Exchange is today. It used to be a publishing area of London according to what I was reading.

Alistair

Re: The Hooper Family in Somerset

slcatterall — 2012-05-19 17:24:58Z

Absolutely Russell I totally agree it is totally addictive. Such a coincidence that you are in BC as well as my son is hoping to do a years Uni placement in BC !!
Speak Soon
S

Re: The Hooper Family in Somerset

slcatterall — 2012-05-19 17:13:52Z

Hi Alistair have you read the link to the article by Dan Snow about Shoreham and the Hooper family?? There are many clues there that I have not had time to investigate Benjamins brother was Robert Hooper MD the gentleman who lived in Saville Row and wrote the Vade Mecum.
So yes there was wealth but maybe not Benjamin in particular.
The road they lived in initially was Red Lion Court not Street near Fleet Street and I think it was Culpeppers old premises.
We also need to investigate Sir Edward Hooper and his son John who was Benjamin Hoopers father. I believe he was a Lawyer. Not a lot of time over the next few weeks as away but I will return hopefully reinvigorated for some more researching
regards
Sarah

Re: The Hooper Family in Somerset

aldwoolley — 2012-05-19 10:47:55Z

Hi Everyone,

These are all the children which Benjamin Hooper and Elisabeth Rondeau had together with their dates of birth:

14 Aug 1765 Benjamin Denham Hooper
18 Sep 1766 George Hooper
17 Aug 1767 Thomas Hooper
02 Dec 1768 Elizabeth Hooper
03 May 1770 John Day Hooper
15 Jun 1771 Jacob Hooper
13 Jul 1772 Rebecca Hooper
03 Jul 1773 Isaac Hooper
21 Jul 1774 Joseph Hooper Died 29 Aug 1774
31 Dec 1776 Samuel Hooper
20 Oct 1779 Enoch Hooper
02 Feb 1781 Joseph Hooper
26 Dec 1782 Frederick Hooper
31 Aug 1786 Cornelius Hooper

All were born at Christ Church in Spitalfields, with the exception of Cornelius who was born in Bermondsey.

Something which is puzzling me, is that Red Lion Street doesn't seem as wealthy and superior to what I thought it was going to be. If I'm wrong please correct me, but I don't think the Hoopers were living in a big house in this area, considering Benjamin was supposed to be extremely wealthy.

Also he must've moved to Barton House shortly after Cornelius was born I think and also if the Hooper family were one of the wealthiest families in the UK of the Georgian period, why were none of them knighted or in the house of Lords? very strange, because if you did something for the King in the 1500s you would've been rewarded in some way with a peerage or a something similar, as well as land. That's what just doesn't add up about our families wealth here. The Rondeau's wouldn't have had in my mind the same monetary status as the Hoopers, because unless they were weaving for the crown, there money would've been not as powerful. Another pondering thought.

This jigsaw started out at a children's 200 easy piece puzzle and now is a 50,000 piece jisgaw with many odd pieces to fit together.

I'm just trying to make sense of it all, because I would've thought that the Hoopers would've been able to completely fight off Crook, if the family as a whole were still extremely wealthy. What about Thomas's brothers? where were they all? Surely one of them would've heard of it and come to Bristol to sort it out? Just doesn't make complete sense does it. It's not as if Thomas's brothers couldn't afford to use the services of a good lawyer.

The problems we now have to unravel here I think:

The Wealth of The Hooper Family Before Benjamin and after Benjamin?

Where Thomas's brothers were all living around 1845 and what there individual wealth would've been?

How long the Hooper family lived in London, because I believe that Benjamin's father might've moved there from Bristol or the estate in Somerset?

Why Margaret Hooper was all helpless after 1845, considering she had an army of aunts and uncles to ask for help?

I have none of these answers and I think these IMO need to be unravelled in order for all of us to have a better understanding of the whole London, Somerset and Bristol arrangements.

I'm interested in all thoughts and ideas of where to proceeed, as I will undertake all ideas on my two week holiday at the begining of June.

Alistair

Re: The Hooper Family in Somerset

violetterussel — 2012-05-18 02:04:13Z

Indeed, Or, on a fesse between three boar's passant az, as many annulets of the first. Crest-a boar's head erased at the neck az, bezante ar, and crined or. I found the motto it states" Fortia in arduis "in latin it translates to (strong in difficult times). I found other interesting info on marriage/crest change overs & a REV Hooper then name switches to REV Hopper of wilton But lost it, maybe nothing.

Re: The Hooper Family in Somerset

violetterussel — 2012-05-17 23:17:46Z

Thanks sarah!
I feel as though we are all meant to find and help each other in this task. whatever fruits we may bare will be a product of determination and a genealogical trait our ancestors had also, which is distilled in us. I am happy with news of new avenues, love the new findings and cant wait to hear more! I will also pay into more time inregards to more findings wether it be crests, positions, trades and accomplishments which are exciting findings to me also. Ive studied history quite alot & realized symbology is the road to success lol..

chat soon
Russ

Re: The Hooper Family in Somerset

slcatterall — 2012-05-17 22:18:40Z

sorry meant to attach link to info the key I think is that John Benjamin Hooper died in 1808http://shoreham.adur.org.uk/images/storyofshoreham/storyshor...

Re: The Hooper Family in Somerset

slcatterall — 2012-05-17 22:17:18Z

Russel you were right the answer did lay in the family crests . I was interested in Robert Hooper MD of STanmore as Robert was such a prominent name in our family and Bingo We have found the link to the Spitalfild Hoopers!! Benjamin was infact John Benjamin Hooper brother of Robert Hooper MD. I had looked at Robert before but could not make the link. Both are apothecary chemists both wealthy men. It is late here in the UK so I will not persue any further this evening but this new information has just given us so many more pieces of our jigsaw.You are genius . Alistair we have work to do !!

Re: The Hooper Family in Somerset

johngilvear — 2012-05-17 09:33:39Z

Alistair..

I wish you luck with your investigation..

I have mentioned previously that my fathers brother William (Bill) Gilvear spent many years trying to unravel the Hooper/Gilvear family history, it became an obsession with him, he never did get to the bottom of it, he was active in querying and holding up the sale of properties in Barton Hill, I don't know what happened to the papers he must have acumulated.

However I do have a list of properties that apparently he believd belonged to the Hooper family at one time.

I believe my father had four brothes and a sister but contact with them lost, a great pity, when my grand father died.

John

Re: The Hooper Family in Somerset

violetterussel — 2012-05-17 06:34:44Z

Hi sarah,
Great flickr photo! . I think some answers can also be found threw heraldry also, I am limited to the info i have though i would like more if my resources are to be exercised. The general armory of England, Scotland, Ireland, and wales: 1884 might provide clues, The 3 star with 3 hoops are hooper (cornwalls) while others have castles...http://books.google.ca/books?id=WmpmAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA505&am...

There is also a strange passage under "leaving"in this heraldic colonial history book with RN,Thomas hooper date mentioned 1823 with other listed names?? strange cuz my doc says he retired in 1809.. & margaret sought maintenance around 1830?.. the far right a tad down magnified...http://books.google.ca/books?id=S8lsAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA69&...

The trick is also to study full meanings of each symbolisms to blazons & crests, I will but time is short at times digging with what i have.cheers!
Russ

Re: The Hooper Family in Somerset

aldwoolley — 2012-05-17 03:43:42Z

Hi Norm,

My Gilvear Connection starts with my Great Great Grandmother who was Margaret Sophia Gilvear, who was William Gilvear's daughter. She married Albert Edward Lovett and my great grandmother is Janet Adeline Sophia Lovett.

Alistair

Re: The Hooper Family in Somerset

aldwoolley — 2012-05-17 03:40:24Z

Hi Sarah,

I have my Summer Holiday from work coming up soon and was planning on going to the record office in Bristol for other purposes, but can easily ask a few questions about the Hooper family. I think I'm going to pay an archivist to do some work for me and gather information.

I also believe that the Somerset record office in Taunton will also provide clues and answers as well and I will try and go there too, as for me its just a quick trip down the M5.

Speak soon

Alistair

Re: The Hooper Family in Somerset

slcatterall — 2012-05-16 20:41:53Z

Hi Alistair,
following on from comments from Russell , I think we need to look at the Merchant Venturers in Bristol . They are based in Clifton but their records are now held in the Bristol Records Office. Thye were/ are a group of wealthy merchants/ bankers who funded voyages to distant lands ( ? links with the silk industy and the Heugenots here).
I have also found evidence of Hoopers glass houses in St Pauls area of Bristol apparently at one time there were 5 members of a Hooper family involved in glassmaking in Bristol and not just any old glass, this was lead crystal !!
There are two things we need to concentrate on
1. We need to work out who Benjamins Ancesters were and how and why the Hoopers came to own land in Bristol. Were they drawn here by the Port and Investment or

2 Was it land that the had inherited from his ancestors? Tewkesbury Abbey and Bishop John.

The clues I believe are in the Wills and in Gloucester

As you are in Bristol any chance of checking out the records office for Merchant Venturers and Glassmaking
Thanks Sarah
http://www.flickr.com/photos/brizzlebornandbred/3455978431/

Re: The Hooper Family in Somerset

aldwoolley — 2012-05-16 13:54:03Z

Hi John,

Thanks for getting back to me. I do have an extensive family tree for this side of the family already. Apparently when Margaret and John moved to Bristol Thomas Hooper bought them a house to live in.

Also The family lost their money in 1845, when Thomas Hooper became ill and Jacob Crook befriended him. Now what I don't understand is what John Gilvear was doing at that time, because surely he could've interfered and stopped this situation from eventually happening. Jacob got Thomas to change his will and there is a line in it whereby he says of Margaret " Presuming to be my daughter". So after that Jacob Crook and his selection of Bristol lawyers got the money and sold the land to the Railways. Once again I can't understand why John Gilvear didn't do anything about it and allowed Margaret's inheritance to disappear. Something we will never know about.

My main goal is to go back beyond Benjamin Hooper. That is not going to be easy, but I'm sure Sarah will probably be able to help me and give me leads like she has been doing so far.

Eventually I'm determined to get all this sorted out.

Alistair

Re: The Hooper Family in Somerset

johngilvear — 2012-05-15 20:24:22Z

Alistair... it is amazing as you say .... to me in that it seems that all replied seem to from Gilvear's seemigly stemming from John & Margaret and their 10 children.. which makes us all extended relatives... as the ripples go out !!!

I don't have a great deal of info. but I will be happy to meet up with you in Bristol and hand over copies of what I have.

I live in the Wye Valley and can be in Bristol in about 25 minutes...or you can come acoss to Chepstow...

How about it ... perhaps at The Mall for convenience of parking.. what say you...

I am very interested in the family tree situation but I do not have the tenacity to delve into the matter and only skate on the surface.

It seems to me that the start point is to establish the tree starting from John & Margarets off spring.

Your William was the first born in 1830 at Inverkeithing , my Benjamin the sixth born in 1837 in Bristol, have only just realised that my fathers father seems to have been the son of Benjamin.

Interestingly my daughter in OZ decided to name her daughter Sophia ..there seems to have been other Sophia's in the past...

I agree, Jacob Crook appears to have been just that .. but how was it allowed to happen and when did it happen ?

It appears that when J & M and their childre retuned to Bristol they lived in No. 3 Catharine Place, Bristol and not in Barton House.

On the subject of Queen Annes visit to Bristol about 1702, and word passed down in the family she was entertained by the Hooper's, I read that a chap Latimore, an histoian recorded I quote:

"In connection with this royal visit a legend has become attached to an old house at Barton Hill known popularly
called Queen Anne house"

Apparently she came to Bristol from Bath by a passable road north of the Avon, through of Kingswood, the retinue consisted of thirteen coaches each pulled by six horses
and Barton House was more borm less in theirm path ...and ideal place to stable the hiorses I would have thought and stay for the night !!

So... did she visit/stay at the house.. legend or for real...

Anway ...

Re: The Hooper Family in Somerset

aldwoolley — 2012-05-15 16:45:07Z

What amazes me with this thread is how, when I wrote it, I never expected to get any replies and now look at where these branches of our family have come. I would like to thank Sarah in particular, because without her help I don't think this thread would've come to life as much as it has done.

Russell unfortunately I lost your email address and was going to email you a while ago. Please could you email me again and I'll send you loads of info, which will be the Hooper wills and also certificates of my Gilvear side of the family.

John I'm fascinated my the Royal Naval links and I always remember my grandparents talking about it to me. Of course I didn't take them seriously and now realise I should've listened more. Any extra information you have on this would be really helpful. My email address is alistair.woolley1@btinternet.com

All we need to do now and it is going to be a mammoth task is to go beyond Benjamin Hooper. I'm determined to get there and get the Hooper family back as far as I can. Also on my two weeks off after Jubilee I'm off to the Scottish record office in Edinburgh to try and sort out John Gilvear and get that side of the family back further.

I keep on thinking about how that scoundrel Crook evicted one of my ancestral Uncles from another branch of my family who wouldn't move and who's house was on the GWR railway line.

Well done everybody and please do keep up the good work here as in the words of Tesco " Every Little Helps".

Alistair

Re: The Hooper Family in Somerset

slcatterall — 2012-05-14 18:34:25Z

Hi Russel , sorry computer down over the weekend. The Merhant Venturers responded but said that all their records are now held at Bristol Records Office. Unfortunately they have limited records available on line and so I think a visit is going to be the only solution . They will do a search for you but for a fee.
In the meantime I have been trying to persue the Knights Templar and links to Tewkesbury Abbey.
I have also made an interesting new link to Benjamin Hooper Apothecary Chemist and Culpepper. Their premises were the same one in Red Lion Street, although I believe Benjamin to be a later period than Culpepper

Re: The Hooper Family in Somerset

violetterussel — 2012-05-14 17:18:39Z

I am looking forward to more developments! throughout history one has to try to understand the full spectrum & dynamics of the environment in those particular eras. areas in Bristol and spain have had a beautiful & architecturally historic history, and have been ripe with educated men and women. Sarah, have you received word in regards to Merchant Venturers of Bristol or the Bristol Records office? if so can you email me please? maybe i can contact also..

Re: The Hooper Family in Somerset

slcatterall — 2012-05-14 16:45:09Z

Hi John , I am with you on this one as you know I did trace Jeanette Bowman back to the Hooper - Gilvears. She married a boiler maker and I assume as the majority of her brothers were boiler makers in Bristol that is where she met her husband and moved to Charham for work. The article from the Guardian referring to Ships Surgeons Logs also refers to a Surgeon who rowed across to the Victory to attend to Nelson but alas mentions no name.
The thing that strikes me about the Hooper- Gilvear family history is that although the detail maybe sketchy the bones of the stories are based on truth . We are related to French Heugenots , there was family wealth which we were robbed of and one of our ancestor was a Ship Surgeon at the time of Nelson and the Battle of Trafalgar. All that is missing is the finer detail. For me what began as family hearsay has become very real indeed and that alone gives me great pleasure. Our family were educated and well to do at a time in history when poverty illiteracy and hardship were the norm..We have a lot to be proud of and to share with our children and their childrens children. Our ancestors played their part in history and for that I will be forever in awe.
Needless to say I am still working hard to make the link between the Hoopers of Spitalfields and Bristol and Bishop John Hooper of Somerset. Thanks to Russel I now have a few leads with regard to The Knights Templar and land belonging to Tewkesbury Abbey so watch this space for further developments

Re: The Hooper Family in Somerset

N_A_Findlay — 2012-05-14 15:40:39Z

Help me out ... who is your mother? Who is your grandmother on the Gilvear side?

Thanks.

Norm

Re: The Hooper Family in Somerset

johngilvear — 2012-05-14 13:41:31Z

TO naf...

Great infor...thanks ..

The Chatam news sheets reads :

An old and respected inhabitant of Chatham Mrs Jannette Paten Bowman passed away in her 83rd year in the presence of her chuldren and granchildren at the residence of her youngest daughter5 Mrs T Obee, Old Ash Tree Rainham Road etc... it furtherv states states..She was the youngest grand daughter of the late Mr Thomas Hooper RN of Barton House, Barton Hill Bristol who served on HMS Saracen at the battle of Trafalger and was called to HMS Victory to attend Lord Nelson when he recieved his fatal wound, ... it
continues.. Queen Anne was entertained at Barton House on her first visit to Bristol...

The date of her death is not stated in the write up...

The fact that you say there was an HMS Sarcen is significant and this fits in with the story that most Gilvear seem to know and helps to give it credibility..

It could be that Hooper did row toacross to Victory,applied his skill(to no avail) but his name kept out it so that Hardy took full publicity...nd no one allowed to steal his thunder and I have a feeling it was something along these lines...I post comment a while ago saying its should have been "kiss me Hooper" .. joking of course but !!

Interestingly on the back of the news sheet and hand written in ink and signed is:

Aunt Jennet Bowman nee Jeanete Gilvear is my fathers sister Benjamin Gilvear and Thomas Hooper is my great grandfather
(signed) R J Gilvear ...

R. J Gilvear is my granfather.. anyway another bit of the puzzle...

Re: The Hooper Family in Somerset

N_A_Findlay — 2012-05-14 12:27:31Z

On 21 October, Admiral Nelson had 27 ships-of-the-line. His flagship, HMS Victory, was one of three 100-gun first rates in his fleet. He also had four 98-gun second rates and twenty third rates. One of the third rates was an 80-gun vessel and sixteen were 74-gun vessels. The remaining three were 64-gun ships, which were being phased out of the Royal Navy at the time of the battle. Nelson also had four frigates of 38 or 36 guns, a 12-gun schooner and a 10-gun cutter.

You stated "my father told me that Hooper was on a HMS Saracen 2nd. ship of the line".

HMS Saracen was a Royal Navy Cruizer-class brig-sloop built by Perry, Green & Wells at Blackwall Yard and launched in 1804. She had a relatively short and uneventful career before she was broken up at Chatham in 1812.

The Cruizer class was an 18-gun class of brig-sloops of the Royal Navy.

Maybe your dad liked the story and just repeated it but HMS Saracen was not a second ship of the line with only 16 guns.

You also stated "I also have a copy of Chatam news sheet recording the death of Jeanette Bowman a grand greatbdaughter of Hoopers stating that Hooper attnded Nelson..."

I have no information on Jeanette Bowman or the Chatham news sheet so I cannot comment on them.

Harold Reginald Gilvear believes he knows which ships Thomas Hooper sailed on and when. He may be able to help you. I have no evidence that his list is good or bad so I will provide it as his research so buyer beware:

Thomas Hooper's Royal Navy overview:
Hospital mate - H.M.S. Formidable - April 1789
Appointed - H.M.S. Brunswick - February 1793
Appointed Surgeon - Firm Gunboat - 9th August 1794
Appointed Surgeon - H.M.S. Pegasus - 3rd May 1795
Sick quarters - At Edinburgh - 9th August 1796
Appointed Surgeon - H.M.S. Sarasen - 24th September 1804
Invalid - At Malta - 10th September 1808
Appointed Surgeon - H.M.S. Zenobia - 18th January 1808
Appointed Surgeon - H.M.S. Vengeance - 26th July 1809
Retired on half pay - Royal Navy - 14th December 1809

Re: The Hooper Family in Somerset

johngilvear — 2012-05-14 10:52:25Z

I have just read a book on Donald Thomas Cochrane who is claimed on a par with Nelson as a naval man. The book was very discriptive of the Cochranes battles and his main battle ships, and mentions that sometimes there were hundreds of support vessels.

I feel that our man may have been on one of the support vessels that perhaps might have been a medical support vessel, I have already said that my father told me that Hooper was on a HMS Saracen 2nd. shipof the line, mand was rowed to Vistory to attend Nelson, in some way.

There was no HMS Saracen at Trafalger ! but the suport vessels where perhaps too unimportant to list.

I also have a copy of Chatam news sheet recording the death of Jeanette Bowman a grand greatbdaughter of Hoopers stating that Hooper attnded Nelson...

So what ships did our Lt Surgeon Hooper sail on ? assuming he was not desk bound.

Re: The Hooper Family in Somerset

johngilvear — 2012-05-14 10:52:23Z

Francis E. HOOPER - married FARRAR at IN in 1856

1836hyacinth — 2012-05-14 04:52:52Z

I am hoping to make contact with descendants of Francis E. HOOPER, who married Philander Gillott FARRAR on 3 April 1856 at Jefferson County, Indiana. Please get in touch- thanks!

Re: The Hooper Family in Somerset

violetterussel — 2012-05-09 01:17:02Z

Hi sarah,
I recently contacted the barton hill history group and they were very pleasant to work with, seems good things might have been said. I also have run across the same info you have posted & found great detail. One thing is evident, jacob crook listed owner 1847 but its almost like the history before that is wiped out. Do you have documents stating Thomas owning that property before him? any copies or copies of a will would be greatly appreciated! A mrs P has mentioned info she cant enlarge on? Id appreciate it if you indulged me??

Russ
violetterussel@yahoo.com

Re: The Hooper Family in Somerset

violetterussel — 2012-05-07 21:54:43Z

Im just having a hard time finding pictures for a before and after type of view. There is not to many pictures available and finding the right one is questionable due to descriptions.Thats all.

Russ

Re: The Hooper Family in Somerset

slcatterall — 2012-05-07 21:39:39Z

Jacob Crook is listed as the Owner, Moses Balckmore the occupant.Im afraid the document did not copy as the original .
Im not sure what you mean with regards to view current property in Bristol . Unfortunatley Barton Hill House was pulled down many years ago and is now a block of flats !!
You could Google Earth to get a good perspective of the locality though

Re: The Hooper Family in Somerset

violetterussel — 2012-05-07 21:35:36Z

1083 Jacob Crook Moses
Blackmore
Garden Land Arable 4 1 17
1084 ----Do---- ----Do---- ----Do---- ----Do---- 1 2 25
1085 ----Do---- ----Do---- ----Do---- ----Do---- 1 0 31
1086 ----Do---- ----Do---- House & Land ----Do---- 1 0 20
1088 ----Do---- ----Do---- Garden land ----Do---- 6 1 13
This seems like evidence Sarah. How would i translate this to view current property in bristol for peace of mind? Jacob crook moses blackmore huh strip all happenings aside and this name is still relatable to a villain out of a book.

Thanks for info Sarah hope to hear from you soon
Russ
PS the Stanley Rondeau information was gratefully appreciated also.

Re: The Hooper Family in Somerset

slcatterall — 2012-05-07 21:13:33Z

Taken from an Archaeological survey of Barton Hill Bristol.
Thomas Hooper died in 1845. Jacob Crook is stated as owner in 1847

HISTORICAL BACKGROUND
General
3.1 The study area is situated in the historic parish of SS Philip & Jacob Without, which formed a
part of the hundred of Swinehead and later part of the hundred of Kings Barton (or Barton
Regis), in the county of Gloucestershire until 1835, when the outparish was incorporated into
the City and County of Bristol (a county corporate).
3.2 Swinehead Hundred is not yet covered by the Victoria History of the Counties of England, but
a general accounts of Barton Hill can be found in Rudder (1779).
Prehistoric and Roman
3.3 There is no evidence for prehistoric or Romano-British activity in the vicinity of the study
area. However the possibility of early activity around the site cannot be precluded.
Anglo-Saxon Period
3.4 The study area lay well to the east of the limits of the burgh of Bricgstow, established by the
later 10th century, and no archaeological remains from this period have been found in the
vicinity. By the time of the Norman Conquest in 1066 the study area lay within the bounds of
the Royal Forest of Kingswood, a part of the extensive Royal Manor of Barton (Regis).
Medieval Period
3.5 At the time of the Domesday Survey in 1086 the manor of Barton lay in the Hundred of
Swinehead in Gloucestershire. The entry for Barton Regis, referred to as ‘Bertune’ reads:
In Barton (Regis) at Bristol there were 6 hides. In lordship 3 ploughs; 22 villagers
and 25 smallholders with 25 ploughs. 9 slaves and 18 freedmen who have 14 ploughs.
2 mills at 27s.
3.6 Land in the manor of Barton Regis produced timber and farm produce for the maintenance of
Bristol Castle (Morris 1982, 153b, Williams & Martin 1992, 448). The study area then may
well have comprised demesne pastures of the Barton to the north-east of an area of marsh
that was periodically flooded by the tidal River Avon and referred to in contemporary
documents as the ‘Kings Marsh’ (now St Philips Marsh).
3.7 By 1260 the new Hundred of Barton Regis had been created out of part of the old Swinehead
Hundred, incorporating various members of the manor including Bitton, Hanham and
Hambrook (Smith 1964, 83).
3.8 The parish church of SS Philip & Jacob, founded c.1137, was a cell of Tewkesbury Abbey
and may well have owned land in the ‘Kings Barton’. Numerous medieval ecclesiastical
records and deeds survive in Bristol Record Office (BRO), which indicate that development
was occurring beyond the boundaries of the town between the late 12th and 13th centuries,
yet although names of houses, curtilages, crofts and land holdings are mentioned, the use of
topographical features or contemporary place names to describe locations means that it is
practically impossible to accurately locate boundaries prior to the 17th century (Walker 1998,
345-48). For example, the names of some of the pastures in the Barton are recorded, such as a
meadow belonging to St Mark’s Hospital called ‘Wainbroke’ (after the Wain Brook) that
extended in the 13th century between the ‘meadow of the hospital of St Lawrence of Bristol
and the meadow formerly of Richard de Pisa’ (Ross 1959, 249).
BaRAS Report No. 2129/2009 Site of Winstanley House, Holmes Street, Barton Hill, Bristol. 4
3.9 The study area lay outside the boundaries of the newly constituted County of Bristol,
established during the reign of King Edward III in 1373.
3.10 The very dispersed settlement pattern that characterised the Barton was a product of
piecemeal, progressive encroachment and small-scale colonisation of the former royal lands,
a process that accelerated following the formal disafforestation of the Royal Forest. The
medieval state records known as the ‘Pipe Rolls’ make it clear that so-called ‘preprestures’
(illegal clearances and enclosures within the bounds of the legal forest) were being
established as early as the 12th century (Moore 1982).
Eighteenth Century
3.11 From the late 18th-century industries such as glass-making, potteries and brickworks began
to develop on the north bank of the River Avon. Following the construction of the Feeder
Canal c.1809, the opening of the Great Western Cotton factory in 1838 and the railway in
1839 the area became increasingly industrialised. Low-quality housing for workers was soon
built along the lanes leading to the various industrial premises.
Nineteenth Century
3.12 The parish of SS. Philip & Jacob was part of Gloucestershire until it was incorporated into
the City and County of Bristol in 1835. The tithe apportionment that accompanies the SS.
Philip and Jacob Tithe map of 1847 (Fig.4) gives details of the areal units (1083 & 1086)
within the study area (see Table 1). The house in areal unit 1086 was then occupied by
Moses Blackmore.
Areal Unit
No.
Owner Occupier Name and
Description of
Lands and
Premises
State of
Cultivation
Quantities
a. r . p.
1083 Jacob Crook Moses
Blackmore
Garden Land Arable 4 1 17
1084 ----Do---- ----Do---- ----Do---- ----Do---- 1 2 25
1085 ----Do---- ----Do---- ----Do---- ----Do---- 1 0 31
1086 ----Do---- ----Do---- House & Land ----Do---- 1 0 20
1088 ----Do---- ----Do---- Garden land ----Do---- 6 1 13
Table 1: Extract from SS Philip & Jacob tithe apportionment
(see Fig.4 for map)
3.13 Tilly’s Court House was vacant as a dwelling from 1820 to 1852, after this date it was rented
by the Goodrope family who changed the name of the house to Queen Anne’s House
(Pritchard 1894, 73). The pottery established there by James Duffett utilised the barns, yards
and adjoining land until it moved to a site opposite some time in the later 1850s or early
1860s.
3.14 The study area was included within the new parish of ‘St Luke, Barton Hill’ created in 1850
out of part of the parish of SS Philip & Jacob. The new church (Grade II Listed Building;
Listed Building No. 901-1/43/360), erected in 1842-3, was built to minister to the
increasingly populous suburb.
3.15 In 1896 the street name of Barton Hill Lane was formally changed to Queen Ann Road.

Re: The Hooper Family in Somerset

N_A_Findlay — 2012-05-07 19:28:01Z

Great Britain certainly did have a wonderful Navy but Great Britain was not very great as a colonist was just the opposite.

The following may give you pause to consider:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2006/jul/22/comment....

Norm

Re: The Hooper Family in Somerset

slcatterall — 2012-05-07 17:55:28Z

Hi Russ, thanks for the info but unfortunately the Hooepr you list are unlikely to be our Thomas as we know he was born in Spitalfields East london. However I do have evidence to clarify that he was appointed Ships Surgeon on the Firm Gunboat in August 1794 so those dates do correlate.
The only thing that I know at present is that all of the stories that have been passed down throught the generations and we are talking 200 years here have had validity Eg descendant from French Heugenots, family wealth being lost and so it is my belief that there is some truth to the story and therefore there must be an answer out there somewhere. I personally take pleasure from the knowledge that he was a brave and intelligent man who risked his own life to save others and who sailed the seven seas at a time when our Navy was something to be proud of and we were a Very Great Britain!

Re: The Hooper Family in Somerset

violetterussel — 2012-05-07 17:29:14Z

I do not know if this helps anyone or not but will post. Ive tried to search these archives for Thomas Hooper but to no avail.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/trafalgarancestors/result...

But on these archive list of 1805 at the battle was- Richard Hooper, born in frome,somerset,england. on HMS Archille-landsman.
-William Hooper born in Oxford, Oxfordshire,england on HMS Africa-landsman.
-John Hooper born in Exeter,devon, england. HMS Africa-landsman.
-John Hooper born in OakHampton on HMS Prince.
I also read an article which spoke of ships surgeons disatisfied with treatment and respect level aboard these vessels around that time in regards to ranks, might be a clue to some degree. Also, I have also here another link stating Thomas Hooper was appointed a Royal navy surgeon in 1794-1805. If he was a higher upper in society maybe he was a exempt from some muster roles? There was also an Wm.H.Hooper appointed surgeon as well in 1797.

http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Navy_List_1805/Officers/Surgeons...

Another interesting fact according to timeline is Thomas Hooper served on the HMS zenobia a few year prior to The HMS Zenobia accompanying Napoleon when he was exiled to St . Helena. in 1815.

Russ

Re: The Hooper Family in Somerset

N_A_Findlay — 2012-05-07 13:25:21Z

The following document provides a very detailed view of the battle and the death of Lord Nelson.

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Death_of_Lord_Nelson

The following shows the map of the battle and all the ships that participated.

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0510/feature3/images/m...

The HMS Saracen was not among the ships.

Norm

Re: The Hooper Family in Somerset

slcatterall — 2012-05-07 12:12:25Z

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/sep/30/navy-surgeons-19th-.... Please note the sentence

'He does not mention that the surgeon from a smaller ship not directly involved in the battle rowed over to help'.

Does anyone have the time to trawl the archives for any mention of Thomas Hooper ??

Re: The Hooper Family in Somerset

johngilvear — 2012-05-07 11:24:24Z

HELLO... I was told at my fathers knee so to speak that at Hooper was on HMS Saracen 2nd ship of the line and was rowed across to Victory to attend Nelson.

I told my kids the same story to my kids ... taking them to Victory in Portsmouth, the officer on board sparkled when I told him of the family association.... he checked his papers but dissapontingly drew a blank !!

I checked at the Nelson Museum in Monmouth and was told there was no named HMS Saracen at the battle.

Perhaps it was at another battle and he did get rowed to Victory perhaps to attend another officer... and down through the years the battle became Trafalger and Nelson, but the his attending Nelson story goes back way beyond my fathers time ...who knows.

The Crook guy seems to have had an apt name but there must have beeen others involved in this skuldugery.

Anyway the ripples have gone out from from John & Margaret
(nee Hooper), intrestungl I seem toi be the only Gilvear, John Gilvear at that on this site,

Re: The Hooper Family in Somerset

violetterussel — 2012-05-07 04:16:11Z

My respect for william trying to stop proceedings by querying family ownership over properties concerned. It would have been a monumental undertaking on his behalf as well as yours and ours trying to figure out the truth behind this "scam" & events leading to the present day. My initial thought when i read the "history" of the GWR with london-bristol heraldrys being blatant & Isambard Kingdom Brunel (engineer) was that maybe it is not just the solicitors or lawyers we are not just contending with here. Their was many bristol merchants in favour of the railroad and many who were against it thinking it wasnt a solution to there problems. Also many shareholders in liverpool afraid of losing money on investments, GWR investors, Exeters and london parliament. It was rejected by the House of Lords but The supporters of the railway were not dismayed. Another Bill was prepared and, after violent opposition, this was passed and royal assent obtained. around my great.... grandfather hoopers death on my grandmas Irenes side The Midland Railway, formed in 1844, (their was a clash between the gauges as im sure we all know in 1845) wished to buy both the Birmingham and Gloucester line also Midlands had a direct route to Bristol. The great western didnt want a break in railways and was eager to buy the railways and land because money was already advanced from bristol, my 1st clue to the greed. This jacob crook was capitalizing off a frail old man who didnt wanna sell, gauge wars, hype on the temple mead (knight templar church) station. 1841-1850 seemed like years of horrible greed in bristol with documents getting destroyed to finish a railway thats main focus seems on bristol because of merchant trade, The Bristol Chamber of Commerce, the Merchant Adventurers and other local industrial bodies that formed a committee in 1833.

Russ

Re: The Hooper Family in Somerset

violetterussel — 2012-05-07 00:20:16Z

Good afternoon, I am excited to see this forum. My great great great grandmother was Margaret Hooper born in 1803 in Inverkiething, Fifeshire, Scotland and died in Bristol, England. And my great great great grandfather was John Gilvear and was born in 1805, In Inverkiething, Fifeshire, Scotland and also died in Bristol. I have obtained family documents from relatives stating this exact information I have seen on this page. I would be grateful if I could acquire any info.

Russell J Violette

Re: The Hooper Family in Somerset

violetterussel — 2012-05-07 00:17:54Z

Dear Sarah C. & Hooper-Gilvear family

Cornelius hooper Gilvear was my great great great uncle and from my information sarah we are cousins. Very exciting to finally make contact with distant family. I feel grateful and appreciate your warm welcome. I look at ships thatThomas Hooper served on and HMS Zenobia also comes up, if my information is correct he would have been on that ship a few years before napolean was exiled to st helena on that vessel. I am just radiant with joy hearing in more detail about christchurch, Jacob Rondeau/ Rondeau family more about our Hooper family line and history and achievements threw history. Distant Violettes have also served in RCAF & 1 wilbur lewis violette served in the 1st canadian mounted rifles expeditionary force and was wounded in battle, we have a strong line of people who fight for what they believe in like "Strawbridge, James. Henry, who fought in the battle of jutland 1916 on the battleship HMS Indefatigable. All this info that has been passed down to me is new also old, when I was younger I heard my grandmother Irene Morse daughter of my great grandmother Florence louise Gilvear talk of family wealth robbed from them and that sadness was passed down generation to generation. Truly saddens me when I think of our relatives who embarked for new land and life faced with financial hardships. I believe in justice and hope this jacob crooks name is shown for the character he truly is and that his surname reflects his nobility and honour "none" and a "crook". On a lighter side, I have been putting in alot of time following my interests of history and particularly now that me and my fiancee are due to be having a boy in early sept 2012. I want to pass are history down to my son when he becomes old enough to raise questions. i am grateful for all and any information related to our family at any time and I will spend more time sifting threw the information I have to help complete this "jigsaw" puzzle that might help rectify a wrong many many years ago & maybe create closure. sarah If you or anyone related to Gilvear-Hooper line would like to contact me for info, feel free to contact me.
Regards Russell J Violette
violetterussel@yahoo.com

Re: The Hooper Family in Somerset

violetterussel — 2012-05-07 00:11:50Z

Sarah
Yes I do live in canada, BC. The Hooper-Gilvear member I decend from is John Gilvear (great great great grandfather)& margaret Hoopers(great great great grandmother) son George Hooper Gilvear to his daughter Florence louise Gilvear to her daughter Irene morse to my dad Gary Violette to Me. George Hooper Gilvear & wife Mary ann Fry had 7 children 1 which was Florence Gilvear. Florence & alfred Morse had 9 children 1 of which was my grandmother Irene morse. I to would also like to travel and see Christchurch Spitalfields with my own eyes I enjoy visiting historical buildings & art. Ive been studying the museum art & love it. I find it funny & relish the idea of you walking past christchurch as much as you did lol that is murphys law alright! im glad you now have the knowledge as to why that particular place was attracting (magnetizing) you to it. Also, I will turn more leaves to acquire more info on are family threw net & I appreciate your best wishes in regards to new family member, I look forward to seeing pictures also. Maybe you can send me a few via email? maybe with Rondeau info as well?.
Chat soon sarah
have a spectacular day