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Richard William Bagnall m. Margaret Lyons?

Richard William Bagnall m. Margaret Lyons?

Posted: 3 Sep 2007 3:34AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Bagnall, Heron, Lyons
I am looking for any information on this family from Co. Durham, England. I have them listed as parents for Joshua Bagnall (b. June 1850), m. Alice Heron 1873. I'm not having any luck tracing them on a census. The one thing I found that could be him is an 1841 census for Winlaton, Durham England. Listed under Richard Bagnall, age 45 and Dorothy age 43, there are two other Richard's in the household, a 13 yr. old and a 6 yr. old. I think the 13 yr. old could be him, but would like more info if anyone has it.
Thanks!

Re: Richard William Bagnall m. Margaret Lyons?

Posted: 4 Sep 2007 4:48AM GMT
Classification: Query
Hi there again Anne Marie,

Further to your request for info on Richard William Bagnall & Margaret Lyons I have been looking at the notes on my Bagnall research and can enlighten you a little further as to who those Bagnalls are in the 1841 census you mention.
Firstly Richard Bagnall(45, born 1795 in fact)will be the son of the Richard Bagnall(1776) and wife Isabel Sidoway.In this census he is with his wife Dorothy Angus who he married in Ryton/ Winlaton 1821. Richard Sidoway Bagnal & Dorothy according to my research had at least 7 children. Richard S. 1821;John 1822-1824; Henry Angus 1826; Sarah 1827; John S. 1828; Isabella 1829; Isaac 1841. The presence of the 2 Richards aged 13yrs & 6 is still a puzzle to me I am afraid.However..........
Secondly according to my notes there is a Richard William Bagnall born 1828, parents Joshua & Sarah (nee Stones)who had a wife called Margaret. Joshua (1799) in this case is another of the children of Richard and Isabella (Siddoway) Bagnall.( I have 9 recorded children to them). So possibly the Richard aged 13 was a cousin staying with them and is the ancestor you are looking for. Another look at various census may help to clarify.
Finally have you seen the Free BMD listing for Richard William Bagnall's marrriage? Recorded for March Qtr 1848 as being to a Margaret LYNN, not Lyons.

Do you have any info on the siblings of your Joshua 1850 as it may help to track down further trees I am looking at.I'd appreciate it if you could send me details if you do.Thanks.

Hope some of this helps?
Regards.
Jenny B.




Re: Richard William Bagnall m. Margaret Lyons?

Posted: 8 Oct 2007 9:30PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Bagnall, Stones, Lynn, Wheatley, Wailes
By 1841 Richard William was an orphan, hence the reason for him living with his uncle.
His father Joshua died in 1838 (buried Ryton 9 Feb , age 39) and his mother Sarah( nee Stones) the following year (buried Ryton 1 Nov ,aged 39).
Richard William had 10 brothers and sisters who were baptised at either Ryton or the chapel of ease at Winlaton. Unfortunately most of them appear to have died in infancy. In 1841 he apppears to have two surviving sisters. Barbara (bap.20 May 1827)who was living in the household of Thomas Laidler (joiner)at Blenheim St,Newcastle upon Tyne and was described as a house servant. Isabella (bap 25 Aug 1835)who was living with her aunt Eleanor(nee Bagnall) and her husband Anthony Wailes (Waterman) at Bull Ring,Tynemouth.I believe Barbara susequently married Gilbert Wheatley (ships master) at All Saints,Newcastle in 1847 and Isabella married Thomas Lynn (coalminer) also at All Saints in 1853.I think Thomas may have been the brother of Margaret,Richard William's wife.
There may have been another surviving sister Sarah (bap 20 May 1827, possibly Barbara's twin).I have been unable to find any record of her burial or marriage or any census entry.
(Information from Ryton parish index 1813-39 baps and burials, 1841-51-61 census and Newcastle upon Tyne marriage registry)
NB 31 Bagnall baps and 18 burials at Ryton 1813-39

Re: Richard William Bagnall m. Margaret Lyons?

Posted: 10 Oct 2007 8:06PM GMT
Classification: Query
Thank you for the replies! I have a copy of the marriage register for Richard and Margaret, and couldn't quite make out her last name. It looked like Lyons to me. But now I can see two n's. The information is soooo helpful. I wish I had information to share with others when they needed it! But so far I'm the one needing help. Thanks again! Ann-Marie

Re: Richard William Bagnall m. Margaret Lyons?

Posted: 10 Oct 2007 8:49PM GMT
Classification: Query
Yes, thank you, that information was very helpful. The only information I have is that he had an older sister named Sarah, born 1848 or so. She was listed as 3 years old in the 1851 Winlaton census. I hope this helps! Also, there is another reply to my thread that has some good information in it that will help you. Thanks again!

Re: Richard William Bagnall m. Margaret Lyons?

Posted: 11 Oct 2007 12:07PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Bagnall
Hello Ann-Marie

Thought I would post the Bagnall baptisms 1813-39 Ryton (& Winlaton)for your information, as they are not covered by the IGI.
I've reordered them into family groups instead of the alphabetical listing of the index (Source: Tyne&Wear record office)
Children of:
Edward & Ann Bagnall
Hannah 16 May 1813 R
Ann * 5 Jan 1817 R
Hannah 3 May 1820 R

Richard & Isabella Bagnall
Eleanor } 4 Sep 1814 R
Hannah }
Ann 11 May 1817 R

Ann Bagnall (single woman)
Jane 8 Mar 1818 R

Joshua & Ann Bagnall
George* 28 Mar 1819 R

Isiah & Ann Bagnall
Ann 20 May 1820 W
Isabella Jane 10 May 1828 R
Isiah 17 May 1835 W
Richard Reed* 9 Jan 1839 W

Joshua & Sarah Bagnall
Isabella 20 May 1821 R
William 21 Sep 1823 R
Sarah 1 Jan 1826 R
Sarah } 20 May 1827 R
Barbara}
Richard 25 May 1828 R
Ellen 14 Nov 1830 W
Eliz.Isabella 11 Apr 1833 W
Joshua 2 Sep 1834 W
Isabella 25 Aug 1835 W

John & Elizabeth Bagnall
Richard 6 Jun 1827 R
Richard 17 May 1829 W
William 2 Nov 1835 W

Richard Siddoway & Dorothy Bagnall
Henry Angus } 24 Mar 1839 W
Isabella }
John }
Richard Siddoway }
Sarah }

Bryan & Ann Bagnall
Richard 27 Mar 1839 R

(* surname spelt Bagnell)

By the way, I'm descended from Edward and Ann.

Regards

Fred
Newcastle upon Tyne

P.S. I'll post the burials if you want them.

Re: Richard William Bagnall m. Margaret Lyons?

Posted: 12 Oct 2007 1:02AM GMT
Classification: Query
Hello there Fred,
I have read your correspondence with Ann Marie with great interest as I too am researching my ancestors, the Bagnalls of Tyneside. My gg grandmother was one Isabella Bagnall born @ 1812/1815, parents Joshua & Ann Bagnall. To date however I have not found a record of her birth (checked all the parish records I can think of) which she always gave as Winlaton in subsequent census.There are details of other children to a Joshua & Ann (nee Redhead) Bagnell that I have located, but never Isabella. So I am still not sure if my Isabella is the daughter of the above mentioned couple. I was therefor wondering if you had come across any facts/clues that might help in your research. I am still not sure either of who and where Joshua Bagnall fitted into it all. On the 1851 census for Lime St. Byker which is probably him with wife Ann, also listed is brother Edward?? I have looked at the Bagnalls of the Ryton area quite some way back (mainly thru the IGI)and because of the numerous lines have a very muddled chart of them all. So I would be also interested to learn if you have managed to get a clear picture of their lines and relationships?
Also I have received a couple of family trees from people over the internet that conflict.Mainly in connection with the Richard & Edward that married Isabel & Ann Siddoway, so again if you are an ancestor I am hoping you can help. Living in NZ limits my research so I would be grateful for any assistance.
Many Thanks,
Jenny B.

Re: Richard William Bagnall m. Margaret Lyons?

Posted: 13 Oct 2007 8:00AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Bagnall
Hello Jenny

The Edward Bagnall living in Lime St in 1851 is my 5g grandfather , so we appear to be distant cousins .
I'm afraid I've come up against the same brick wall as you have as regards Joshua,Edward and Richard.I can find no baptism records that match their ages as recorded on census or burial records.If they are all brothers it may be significant that they all named early sons Joshua (possibly their Father).There is a Joshua buried at Winlaton (1836) that would fit ( see below).
As regards Isabella there appears to be a significant gap (1806-19) between the baptisms of Joshua and Ann's children.It may be that she was not baptised (there are children in the burial register at Ryton who do not match the baptism record)or she may have been baptised elsewhere,possibly All Saints (the parish covering Lime St).I know Edward was resident there as early as 1827 as he is recorded in a trade directory of that year.Also a 3 year old William Bagnall was buried at Ryton in 1820 but is recorded as coming from All Saints.( The IGI has a gap in baps for All Saints 1812-33!). I will try and follow this up when I next visit Tyne and Wear records office.

Here are the Bagnall burials for Ryton and Winlaton (marked R or W)1813-39.They are all recorded as coming from Winlaton, apart from the two entries shown.

Ann 11 Apr 1836 W, 5
Eleanor 11 Jan 1836 W, 90
Elis. Isabella 24 Apr 1833 W, 1
Ellen 24 Apr 1833 W, 3
Hannah 30 Jul 1814 R, 3
Isaac 21 Jun 1820 R, 36
Isabella 26 May 1824 R, 3y 6m
Isabella 28 Aug 1827 R, 53
John Sidaway 23 Dec 1824 R, 2y 6m
Joseph 17 Aug 1838 R, 61
Joshua 5 Sep 1834 W, 20w
Joshua 20 Mar 1836 W, 93
Joshua 9 Feb 1838 R, 39
Richard 5 Apr 1826 W, 57
Richard 14 Jun 1827 R, 10d, of Quarry House
Sarah 1 Nov 1839 R, 39
William 3 May 1820 R, 3, of All Saints
William 25 May 1828 R, 6

This information is taken from an index and not the original and as such should be used with the usual caution.

Fred

Re: Richard William Bagnall m. Margaret Lyons?

Posted: 13 Oct 2007 11:46PM GMT
Classification: Query
Hello Fred,
Thanks indeed for that, greatly appreciated. Whilst I have checked the Parish records for Isabella in Ryton/Gateshead & St Johns, Newcastle, I never got round to looking at All Saints!So an answer may lie there. Her probable mother Ann Redhead is someone I have also been chasing with no luck. She and Joshua were married in 1795 at St Marys,Carlisle ( a place where several Bagnalls are also to be found) and she was a minor. In subsequent census that I have found her on she gives her birth place as Winlaton( 1851) and the in 1861 as Haswell, Co Durham.And in the Ryton P/R for the births of some of her children it states she is from the parish of Tanfield.
Re Edward / Richard & Joshua's relationships you may be interested in the info I was sent thru another contact.
In this it's claimed that a certain Joseph Bagnall 1730
married twice, first time in 1749 to a Margaret? and had 8 children by her, one of whom was Joshua 1753 who subsequently married Ann Brewis 1771 in Gateshead and whose eldest son was Joshua 1774 who married Ann Redhead.From another of the other 8 siblings, namely Ralph 1751 who maried Sarah Nixon 1772 (Ryton)there was a son Edward 1772 who maried (Sarah) Ann Siddoway. This makes Joshua & Edward cousins tho. Then from the second marriage of Joseph 1730 to a Margery Ellison there were another 6 children!One of whom was Richard 1776 who married Isabel Siddoway. I had several queries to the author about the authenticity of this (for one couldn't locate the second marriage between these two at all) but never ever heard back. However I send it to you for what its worth and apologise if its muddled! There was obviously 2 Richard Bagnalls born 1776 and that in itself has been a puzzle.
I shall keep searching and will let you know if I ever turn up anything.
Finally I would be very intrested to see your family tree from Edward & Ann down and share mine wiith you if you are
interested. My Isabella Bagnall married a William Ryle, Newcastle 1839 and our family line after living in Gateshead until the early 1900s moved to Whitley Bay, where I was born and raised.
Cheers for now.
Jenny B.
buffo@xtra.co.nz

Re: Richard William Bagnall m. Margaret Lyons?

Posted: 15 Oct 2007 6:09AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Bagnall, Lynn
Thank you so much, Jenny and Fred. I'm still trying to muddle through and sort out this information. I haven't been doing this very long, so a lot of the sites for searching either I'm not aware of, or just don't quite know how to go about seraching them. All of this information is a wonderful way for me to start.
A couple of questions: What is the IGI?
Where do I find the parrish records, and what do I need to do to verify that indeed these are relatives of mine? I've been trying to track down possible links in other family trees with no luck. I have ordered birth/marriage records in the past, but don't want to do it for every Bagnall out there without be relatively sure of a connection.
Why is it that I can find names on one commonly used site, but on another large database, they won't be found?
Thank you so much for all your help. It is a fantastic feeling to be finding these family connections. Our family knows practically nothing about our family history, so it's great to fill in these blanks! (Around 1930 the family moved to Oregon and that is where our information started.)
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