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Robert Irving - Mary Carruthers, Cumberland, England

Robert Irving - Mary Carruthers, Cumberland, England

Posted: 23 Oct 2006 9:36PM GMT
Classification: Query
Hi

I am searching for information on Robert Irving and Mary Carruthers from the Cumberland area of England. They had a daughter Elizabeth Irving (b1808 in Tarraby) and I beleive that they married in 1805.
Any further information on this family would be gratefully received

Regards

Stuart

Re: Robert Irving - Mary Carruthers, Cumberland, England

Treequester (View posts)
Posted: 2 Nov 2006 12:54PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Ross, Irving, McCue, Lercher, Fay, Chance, Watts, Cox
Here is what I have on Margaret. The genealogy group over in Dumphrees was very helpful and supplied most of this. The family Bible did the rest.

MARGARET1 CARRUTHERS was born in Smallrigg?. She married JOHN ROSS.

More About MARGARET CARRUTHERS:
Name 2: Peggie Carruthers

Children of MARGARET CARRUTHERS and JOHN ROSS are:
i. MARGARETTE2 ROSS, b. 1836, Lochmaben, Scotland; d. May 18, 1902, Cornland, Logan Co., IL; m. WILLIAM BARTON IRVING, Jun 22, 1854, Lochmaben, Scotland; b. Jul 19, 1830, Fenwald, Scotland; d. Oct 26, 1879, Buffalo Hart, Sangamon Co., IL.

More About MARGARETTE ROSS:
Date born 2: 1830, By 1880 census
Burial: May 20, 1902
Cause of Death: Brights Disease, urennia
Medical Information: 73 years old by ISR, p 6 or 66 years old by other notes by Anna May 72 years 7 months by death certificate
Obituary: May 20, 1902, IL State Register
Residence: Ill 49 years

Re: Robert Irving - Mary Carruthers, Cumberland, England

Posted: 27 Dec 2007 6:07AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Irving & carruthers
Hello, I am descended from these people.They were MY 3X GR Great grandparents
RobertIrving bn Nov 1784 at Kings Moor Hamlet dd July 09 1832 lived at Tarraby and married Novemer 09 1805 at St Michael's church Stanwix, Cumberland to Mary Carruthers 1781-1832
Elizabeth & Mary both bapt May 08 1808
Thomas bt Nov 11 1810 my ancestor, I have other information please email me. mjrickard@shaw.ca

Re: Robert Irving - Mary Carruthers, Cumberland, England

Posted: 27 Dec 2007 6:07AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Irving & carruthers
Hello, I am descended from these people.They were MY 3X GR Great grandparents
RobertIrving bn Nov 1784 at Kings Moor Hamlet dd July 09 1832 lived at Tarraby and married Novemer 09 1805 at St Michael's church Stanwix, Cumberland to Mary Carruthers 1781-1832
Elizabeth & Mary both bapt May 08 1808
Thomas bt Nov 11 1810 my ancestor, I have other information please email me. mjrickard@shaw.ca

Re: Robert Irving - Mary Carruthers, Cumberland, England

Posted: 20 Jun 2009 7:33PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Ross,Carruthers,Little,Jardine,Reid,Wilson,Thomson,Liverance,Galloway
Hi Treequester,
I've just come across your 2006 post regrding Margaret Ross and William Irving who emigrated from Lochmaben,Dumfriesshire to Illinois around 1856.I am descended from Margaret's sister Elizabeth Ross and would like to know more if possible about the information in the family bible you mentioned in the post.
Regards,
Joan

Re: Robert Irving - Mary Carruthers, Cumberland, England

Posted: 23 Jun 2009 9:05PM GMT
Classification: Query
Wow, just when you think a trail is dead! My grandmother used to correspond with the relatives in Scotland and no one ever picked it up after she became too blind to write. What a shame! The family Bible is mostly about the Irvings and those who were born in the USA. I know she had an uncle William. I have a bundle of letters from Margaret McLean and her nephew Stuart Veitch. Here are some notes from my grandmother. Let me know if any of it makes sense:

Note from Stuart on 12-29-1964:
"Mrs. Smith worries a good deal about her sister, who is now in a private home, after being in hospital for over two years...Her other sister is also going into hospital for an operation."

Mrs. Marie Blair, in USA, is some sort of relative writing to Stuart's daughter and came to England to visit Stuart's family.

Wm. Irving born in Ireland or Scotland, Elkhart Lodge No. 545 AF & AM, I615 in census records, came here in 1856 we think. According to old letter between Anna Lercher and Margaret McLean, he was the third son so inherited nothing. He studied the law and joined the English Army. Afterwards returned to Lochmaben and worked as a coachman for Margaret Ross's father. His family thought he had married beneath himself and that is supposed to be part of why they moved to USA

Wm Irving was Robert the Bruce's armorer, and was granted the lands and titles from him DON’T KNOW IF TRUE, JUST FAMILY STORY

"We went to Dumfries by train then we went by motor car to where I heard your Grandfather's two half sisters lived. We found them, of course I had to tell them who we were. we found them both well. They were pleased to know about you, one of them is a widow and has a daughter who does dressmaking. They have a nice house and very comfortable and very cheerful, they took a good hearty laugh as some of the old tales they told us. I think your grandfather would be older than then but I did not like to ask. I forget how much over, seventy the oldest one is."

Margaret McLean letter 11-15-1920:
"I have been expecting a cousin on a visit but she has not been. We proposed going to see Miss Scott and Mrs Hunter, your relations which we once went to see."

Re: Robert Irving - Mary Carruthers, Cumberland, England

Posted: 24 Jun 2009 10:08AM GMT
Classification: Query
Hi (sorry I don't know your name),
My gggrandmother was Elizabeth Ross born 1833 in Lochmaben ,Dumfriesshire to John Ross and Margaret Carruthers.I've been searching for ages for a marriage for Elizabeth's sister Margaret Wright Ross,born 4-10-1829 and by chance came across the old posts by you and others on Rootsweb.In the last few days I've had a look at the Dumfriesshire censuses and figure that William Barton Irving,who married Margaret in 1855 and moved to Illinois ,was the son of Agnes Barton.Agnes was probably not married at the time(1830)-at least I can't find any marriage to a ? Irving.Sometime before 1836 she married Thomas Scott in Tinwald and had a son John in 1836 and your two sisters from the 1907 letter(Mrs Hunter and Miss Scott),Grace Scott born 1839 and Margaret Scott born 1841.Here is the family in Cowshaw,Tinwald in 1841:
John Barton 40 farmer(probably Agnes' brother)
Thomas Scott 25 agric.labourer
Agnes Scott 35
John Scott 4
Grace Scott 2
William Irving 10 Agric.labourer
Also in Cowshaw this family
David Carruthers 30
Mary Carruthers (nee Barton-Agnes' sister)
Agnes B.Carruthers 6
Thomas Carruthers 10 mths
and
Mary Barton 55 pauper
In 1851 in the same farm
Thomas Scott 34 head farm servant born Dryfesdale
Agnes Scott wife 49 born Tinwald
John Scott 14 son born Tinwald
Margaret Scott 9 born Tinwald daughter scholar
and
Mary Barton cousin of Thomas Scott pauper formerly servant
Also in 1851 in North Cowshaw-household of John Barton,farmer
William Irving 20 farm servant
In St Mungo parish in the household of David Carruthers,
Grace Scott,niece of David Carruthers,scholar age 11 born Tinwald.
Agnes Barton -born 21-2-1802 in Tinwald to William Barton and Grisel Roddick
Margaret Scott married Robert Hunter 16-8-1867 in Tinwald and has only one child registered on Familysearch-Agnes Hunter 12-1-1869 Dumfries(the dressmaker daughter in your ancestor's 1907 letter).I can't find the Hunters in the 1881 census but found little Agnes age 12 with her aunt Grace in Hightown Cottage ,Tinwald.Back in 1871 she is also with her aunt Grace and Grace's father Thomas Scott in the same cottage so I'm wondering what was happening with the Hunter parents.
It looks like the Bartons ,Scotts and Carruthers were connected by earlier marriages but it's very difficult to trace them as the names are so common in Dumfriesshire.In 1861 Margaret Scott was a 19 year old dairymaid on the farm of James Carruthers (58 ,born Kirkmichael parish) and wife Maria.I'm assuming that James must be a brother of the David Carruthers who was also born Kirkmichael.Your William Barton Irving in Illinois named one of his children David Carruthers Irving.In the 1841 census ,in the next farm to Cowshaw-called Lingate- are William Barton age 50 wife Janet and various children including one called Irvine!
One comment on your post intrigued me-a descendent of my Elizabeth Ross ,Jemima Marshall,married a John Hervey in Lethbridge ,Alberta in 1912.After Jemima died ,John Hervey married Jemima's sister Ann Marshall in Raymond ,Alberta.You had something about a daughter of Mrs Hunter marrying a Hervey in Alberta.
Finally my big brick wall is John Ross,Margaret's father.I have no date or place of birth for him.He married Margaret Carruthers in Lochmaben one week before the arrival of the first child.A story in the family says he was a school master,that Margaret Carruthers family thought he was way beneath her and were against the marriage.After the marriage he farmed Broadleydyke farm in Lochmaben.Unfortunately he died sometime between the birth of Barbara Ross in 1837 and the 1841 census where Margaret Ross ( Carruthers) is marked as a widow.Margaret Carruthers was the daughter of Robert Carruthers who farmed Watchill in Lochmaben and Sarah Jardine.Sarah's father was William Jardine of Priesthead,so of the minor gentry.If you Google William Jardine of Priesthead you will get the House of Lords court case over his will(Cases decided in the court of Session) -he left his estate to his oldest daughter and her heirs and the other children,including Sarah went to court .I was hoping that your family bible might have given some information on John Ross.
Joan

Re: Robert Irving - Mary Carruthers, Cumberland, England

Posted: 30 Jun 2009 1:53AM GMT
Classification: Query
I went through my box of papers and the Bible pages only have Irvings on them, no Ross other than Margarette. I did find more on the people Grandma corresponded with in Scotland. Grandma originally wrote the letters for her grandfather (William Barton Irving)when he couldn't see well enough and then, the writing was taken over by other family members. I wrote one letter and the woman did not understand our relationship and did not want to help with the family history.
Mary Marshall was an early penpal. I don't know how she is connected but did note this: some relation to Margarette Ross but not sure what. took up the correspondance to Grandma when Mrs. MacLean couldn't continue. As a note, Mrs. Marshall's daughter married the Hervey.

Margaret (Maggie) McLean wrote some letters until "removing" in May 1929, I think, the postmark is hard to read. She lived next door to Margaret Richardson.
Margaret Richardson also wrote(Maggie McLean's neice):
ended in old folks home outside of London. Lived on a trust. Maybe married someone named Conam and lived in London. Had one son in army, Colonel, connected with NATO in Paris and received an OBE in the Queen's honours. Ended in home for "elderly ladies" in London This info belongs to one of Maggie McLean's neices, a sister's child
Grandm last wrote to Stuart Veitch Smith at Annandale
, 68 Achworth Rd Pontefract, Yorkshire, England

5/1918: P.27899.2.am.S.V.Smith
B.A.F.
Resident Engineers Office
Halton Camp West
Bucks, England

Nov 71: "Annandale"
68 Ackworth Road
Pontefract, Yorkshire, England
WF8 4LH
His daughter took over the corespondance next, Jean Margaret Veitch Smith:

She became an architect like her father, expected to graduate in 1941 and then go into business with her dad ending as his partner and a Associate of the Royal Institute of British Architects, designed banks mostly, Banks Architects for the York county Savings Bank.

Corresponded with Mrs. Marie Blair, a cousin of Anna May Lercher, who lived in USA. Mrs. Blair visited her in England.

I think that Stuart was the son of John Ross Smith, son of John Smith & Mary Ross, who was the daughter of mysterious John Ross you seek. I don't know if any of this helps but I will keep looking for clues.

I will review all those old letters. Maybe since I've got more family information, they will hold more interest. I'
ll let you know. Darlene

Re: Robert Irving - Mary Carruthers, Cumberland, England

Posted: 30 Jun 2009 8:59AM GMT
Classification: Query
Hi Darlene,
Thanks for the reply.I think the John Ross Smith you mention must be a descendent of Robert Smith and Jane Ross.Jane was the oldest child of John Ross and Margaret Carruthers.They had a son John Smith in 1845.
Mary Little was the daughter of Matthew Little and Elizabeth Ross,Margaret's younger sister.She married Matthew Marshall in Scotland and two of their daughters married John Hervey (not at the same time!)and lived in Alberta.A son Matthew Marshall died in Ontario.
If you come across any reference to the Ross/Carruthers family in Lochmaben I'd love to hear and I'm wondering whether your tree is online at all.I have a photo of Matthew Little and Elizabeth Ross taken around 1890 which I can send if you like.
Joan

Re: Robert Irving - Mary Carruthers, Cumberland, England

Posted: 1 Jul 2009 8:03PM GMT
Classification: Query
Here's more info on the people who wrote to my grandmother:
Stuart Veitch Smith's aunt was Maggie McLean (died 4/28/1928 at age 75 and buried in Lochmaben)Her cousin was Margaret Richardson. Ms. Richardson lived with and cared for Maggie McLean in Thistle Cottage which was built by Maggie's father, Robert Smith and Stuart's father. Maggie McLean had a sister Jessie who had earlier lived in Thistle Cottage with her.

Grandma also had a story that Elizabeth was originally going to come to America with Margarette but backed out once she saw the ship. I have a pictures of Thistle Cottage attached. The woman is Margarette but I don't know her relationship to anyone. I also have others of Margaret Marshall and her parents.
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