I am trying to trace a family that were mentioned in a removal order from Wilshamstead to St Neots. They are William Dilley his wife Ann, children Richard aged abt 10, Mary aged abt 8 and Thomas aged abt 4. I have found the details of the baptism of Mary 1798 Stotfold and William 1797 Wilshamstead. I can't find anything on Richard. My ancestor William was born in Wilshamstead in 1797 but is not mentioned in the orders. Any help with my search would be appreciated. Ultimately I would like to find out details about William the father, baptism, parents etc.

Lea-Anne

The Mary baptised in Stotfold in 1798 isn't yours. She was buried on 15 Aug 1798 at Stotfold, dau of William and Ann (per PR transcript)

David

Other researchers should be aware that there's another thread on this family at http://boards.ancestry.co.uk/localities.britisles.england.hu...

Sometimes you have to go backwards or sideways in order to go forwards

Do I assume that the William age 18 in 1841 living in Wilstead with his parents William and Charlotte is your ancestor? But if I assume correctly, the age of the William son of William and Ann baptised 1797 doesn’t match up with the William husband of Charlotte. In 1841 William was 48, in 1851 he was 59, in 1861 he was 69, and 79 on death in 1870. All pointing to a birth c1791/2 in Wilstead. So were there two Williams born in Wilstead, one in say 1791 and the other in 1797? But there’s only one baptism, no burial in Wilstead, and only one William in censuses. You say “My ancestor William was born in Wilshamstead in 1797”. He was baptised in 1797 which is not necessarily the same as born in 1797. So was William in 1797 a late baptism? If so he must have been the son of William’s first wife, who presumably must also have been named Ann. He would have been 14-15 at the time of the removal order, so may have already been working elsewhere, and missed removal, although still a minor.

As I pointed out on the Hunts thread, there’s a Richard in 1851 age 64 born Wilshamstead in St Neots Union workhouse at Eaton Socon Beds, and his burial, still aged c64, in 1858 in St Neots. There’s only one Robert Dilley marriage in Hunts – in 1817 at Abbotsley (3 miles from St Neots) to Ann Morton which may or may not be him.

And I can’t find William and Charlotte’s marriage either!

This is a very frustrating Dilley family!

Virtually all of Beds baptisms and marriages pre 1813 have been extracted onto the IGI, so as Richard’s baptism doesn’t appear it usually means either he wasn’t baptised at all, or the family was non-conformist and he wasn’t baptised in the established church, or there’s an enormous spelling variation, which I don’t think is the case as I’ve been through all the Richards baptised in Wilstead and there’s no-one with whom he could been confused.

David

Might be making progress!

In addition to the Removal Order that you have there's also an Indemnity certificate held at BLARS. Details can be found at http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/A2A/records.aspx?cat=004-...

What it shows is that on 22 Sept 1768 Wilstead parish gave St Neots parish an indemnity so that Wm Dilley, w Han and s Chas (aged 6 mths) could move to St Neots without fear of being removed. (BLARS ref P22/13/11)

Now there's a marriage on the IGI, a member submission which is not to be relied on, on 27 May 1768 at Yelden (Yielden)Beds between William Dilley and Hannah Claridge. There are also birth entries for the same William Dilley at Willhampstead. I suspect the marriage is genuine and the entry says William was of the parish of Willhampstead, and then members who put the birth entries on the IGI guessed that he was 25.

I can't see a burial of a Hannah/Ann in Hunts or Beds that fits.

Whether this William is the same William who was removed from Wilstead to St Neots is speculation. If Hannah died he could have remarried later in life in 1795.

There's no Charles baptised in 1768 in Beds, but they may already have been living in St Neots at that time.

The answers may lie in the baptisms at St Neots

David

Thanks David once again for your great help. I didn’t think to add a link to my previous thread so thanks for doing that for me.

As I hadn’t been able to find any baptism details for the Mary mentioned in the removal orders I guessing I was jumping on anything I could find around that date. Thanks for advising about the burial.

Yes I have been able to confirm that William who was 18 in the 1841 Census for Wilstead is my ancestor. The Wilstead Parish Register has the baptism details for Mary b 1819 through to John b 1830, including William. The baptism for Ann can be found at Eltisley, Cambridgeshire where the marriage between William and Charlotte Peacock on 8 July 1816 took place.

I do get mixed up between born and baptised when I type details, but your point about that the baptism could be a late one is valid. There are no other Dilley families in Wilstead at the time so even though the ages mentioned in the 3 Censuses are confusing, I can only assume that William bap 1797 to William and Ann Harley is my ancestor. There is nothing to support that there was an earlier William and Ann who could be the parents of William bap 1797. He may have been born a few years before William and Ann married but was only baptized in 1797, and as you say been older than I thought and away working when the removal orders were put in place.

If the assumption is that William first married Hannah in Yeldon on 27 May 1768 and at the time was aged about 25 then his baptism could be between abt 1740 and 1743. I have found children for them on IGI in Wilstead – Mary bap 1762, John bap 1769 and Thomas bap 1771, d 1771. However the Beds archives research has found a Thomas b 1762 not Mary and then they also mention later that the entry is very illegitable and could be any name. I have the burial of Hannah from the researcher as 2 Feb 1787 in Wilstead, this can also be found on Ancestry.com.au. Doesn’t help to see where Charles fits in.

The story is slowly coming together with a few gaps that can only be filled by assumption, which I am sure is the case when researching your ancestors. But I would prefer to be confident I am on the right track and researching the correct ones.

I can either assume that the removal orders in 1806 are for a completely different family but there has been no evidence of another similar family or that perhaps William and Ann Harley are the parents of Richard aged abt 10, Mary aged abt 8 and (obviously Thomas aged abt 4, as that record can be found) and that William was older and off working somewhere. But there seems to be no baptism records for Richard or Mary to confirm this. They are the right ages to be born after the marriage but as you mention maybe they were not baptised at all, which does not help us researches centuries later.

David, can you give me your thoughts and can you help me find any other relevant information on this confusing family.

Thanks, Lea-Anne

I think that answers are likely to come from the baptisms in St Neots parish register. I’d been thinking of the Dilleys in St Neots during the night, as one does, and had worked out a couple of angles to pursue.

I’ve just been looking at burials in St Neots and for some reason that escapes me I seem to have overlooked two possible burials there.
21 Feb 1809 William aged 70 (this was the first Dilley burial in St Neots)
21 Nov 1820 Ann aged 56 (the second Dilley burial)

This looks like the original William who married in Yelden, and his second wife Ann Harley. William’s age would fit with the William baptised on 20 Apr 1740 at Wilstead.

William and his first wife may be the source of the Dilleys of St Neots – the first Dilley marriage in St Neots wasn’t until 1821, although there were Dilley marriages in adjoining Eynesbury before this.

Interesting that William married at Eltisley, which is only six miles east of St Neots. Perhaps he did move to St Neots when his parents were removed there in 1806. Why he would have moved back to Wilstead after 1816 is a mystery though.

I’d seen the 1787 burial of Hannah at Wilstead but had thought she was from an earlier William and Hannah in Wilstead who baptised Mary in 1762. I hadn’t thought that they might be connected to the Yelden marriage in 1768. Particularly as I can't see another marriage pre 1762 of a William and Hannah. Normally though, any children born before marriage would have been baptised with the mother’s maiden name (this also concerns me with the 1797 William, as I don’t think you can necessarily explain away the age discrepancy by putting it down to birth 4 years before his parents married).

You keep coming up with snippets from research done for you at Bedford. Did they also check for Ann Harley? I can’t find her in Beds and wonder if she was from St Neots too.

I’m going to England in a couple of weeks time and will be going to Bedford to visit my aged mother. If I can make time I’ll call into the Archives and see what I can find, and tidy up some of the ends at the same time.

David

The age of William who married Charlotte continues to bug me. Every census, his death, and his burial all point to 1791-3 as his birth range. Yet the baptism was 1797. But, I'm stupid!, if he was born before William Dilley and Ann Harley were married in 1795 he'd have been baptised in her maiden name, and it's been staring me in the face and only just hit me! Looking on the IGI there are the following baptisms in Wilstead:
6 Jan 1793 William Harlot son of Ann Harlot
14 Apr 1765 Ann Harlat dau of James & Mary

Harlat/Harlot/ Harley ???

There's no marriage or burial of William Harlot in Beds, nor a baptism of Ann Harley. The baptism of Ann Harley matches the age at burial of Ann Dilley in St Neots.

Needs reference to the parish register to see what extra detail is given. It's on the to-do list! May be difficult to prove though.

And if William Harlot is really your William Dilley, which I strongly suspect he is, then it would explain why he wasn't included in the Removal Order. Contrary to what you were told in the letter of 15 June, a child's parish of settlement is that of his father, not his birth parish, UNLESS THE CHILD IS ILLEGITIMATE in which case his parish of settlement is his parish of birth. So Wilstead couldn't get a Removal Order against William Harlot/Dilley as Wilstead was his parish of settlement.

Whether the 1797 was a rebaptism (which isn't allowed!) I can't tell, but it doesn't look as though it was another William. Another job while in Bedford.

But where were Richard and Mary? That's tomorrows challenge!

David

Thank you so much again.

I am getting so much information from you and filling in all my gaps.

Lea-Anne