hi, marie here are you on genes reunited? myemail is tarok@blueyonder.co.uk email me please xx

oh my just got the notification now for your replies my mail box had a problem what a surprise thank you so much for this :) xxx

Hi Daniel

Thank you for your post and for the additional HOLLAND information (now added to my extended family tree).
Incidentally, when Joseph HOLLAND married Margaret HART on 31 October 1860 in Parr St Peter his marital status was given as widower. So the mother of his first child Anne must have been another Margaret (born in Sankey) from an earlier marriage?

1851 Census :-
HO 107/2195 folio 423 page 10
Parr Stock Street, Parr, Lancashire
Joseph HOLLAND, 27, miner, LAN Parr
Margaret, wife, 25, LAN Sankey
Anne, daur, 2, LAN Parr

Margaret is believed to have died in 1854, aged 28.

As regards Margaret HART, no father's details are shown for her in the 1860 marriage entry, suggesting that she may have been illegitimate. Given that her place of birth is shown as Blackrod in the 1891 Census, this is quite likely her with her unmarried mother (+ grandfather, maybe) in earlier Censuses :-

1841
HO 107/537/2 folio 23 page10
Green Bank, Blackrod, Lancashire
William HART, 70, labourer, Y (born in county)
Ellen, 45, Y
Margaret, 11, Y

1851
HO 107/2198 folio 273 page 12
Moores Place, Blackrod, Lancashire
Richard THORPE, 32, coal miner, LAN Rumworth
Ann, wife, 37, LAN Blackrod
Thomas , son,s 5, LAN Rumworth
John, son, 2, LAN Blackrod
Ellen, daur, 7 months, LAN Blackrod
Ellen HART, lodger, U, 54, domestic work, LAN Anderton
Margaret HART, servant, U, 21, house servant, LAN Blackrod

PS. What a pity Marie's original post entitled HOLLAND in Lancashire was mysteriously 'spirited away' from the Lancashire Message Board, where it rightfully belonged. :-(

Hi again Daniel

As regards the 1851 Blackrod Census listed earlier, I should perhaps have mentioned that Lancashire BMD has this marriage :-

1844
Bolton St Peter
Ref 18/6/459
Ann HART and Richard THORP

On Free BMD :-

1844 September Quarter
Bolton 21/90
Ann HART and Richard THORP

hi thanks but its hurst am looking for on blackrod one ? ...marie

Hi Marie

The HART's living in Blackrod in the 1841 & 1851 Censuses are believed to be the direct ancestors of your cousin Daniel Holland, to whom my last two posts were addressed?

Hi everyone,

MARIE:
"...are you on genes reunited? my email is tarok@blueyonder.co.uk"

No, I never use the site really, but now that you've mentioned it I've signed up to see what other gems of info are out there. Yet, it's a nightmare trying to upload a large family tree on to tese sites. They never give you enough capacity. Thanks for your email too, mine's danielhollande@hotmail.com.

PUDDINGTON:
"Incidentally, when Joseph HOLLAND married Margaret HART on 31 October 1860 in Parr St Peter his marital status was given as widower. So the mother of his first child Anne must have been another Margaret (born in Sankey) from an earlier marriage?"

Thanks for shining a light on this. I can't belive this one slipped past me. I had noticed the anomalies of Margaret's age and place of birth but I just assumed they were errors or inconsistencies in the one census. It just never dawned on me that we get two Margarets for the price of one. Just to show that you must always remain attentive while researching.

PUDDINGTON:
"As regards the 1851 Blackrod Census listed earlier, I should perhaps have mentioned that Lancashire BMD has this marriage"

Thanks. I never came across these sites either. Very useful. Another one - I think you mentioned it before - is http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/ OnLine Parish Clerks
for the County of Lancashire. The best bit is the price! :-)

Actually, I just received the death certificate for Joseph HOLLAND - the husband for anyone that'd like to take these details:

Died: 20 January 1899; 19 Sutton Mors, St Helens
Age: 76
Occupation: Coal miner
Cause of death: Bronchitis, anasarca
Description and residence of informant: M ROBERTS daughter present at the death (that would be Mary ROBERTS - Joseph's eldest daughter from his second marriage)

I'll attach the certificate for anyone that'd like to take a copy as well shortly - it Ancestry doesn't seem to allow me to do it at the moment.

Cheerio
Daniel Hollande

Here's the death certificate attached that I promised for Joseph HOLLAND b.c1823, husband to the two Margarets.

Hope it's of use
Daniel

Thats wonderful thank you so very much. my email is tarok@blueyonder.co.uk if you find anything else out please e mail me xx

hi please could I have a copy of the image. its great to get so much info for the family thank you very much xx