Outlaws (Old West) - Family History & Genealogy Message Board

Re: Altagracia and Angel Otero - Prisoners at the Yuma Territorial Prison

dj3aj2cj1 — 2009-09-04 22:01:48Z

The Arizona Republican
Phoenix, Arizona
June 13, 1899

GUILTY OF MURDER

Conviction of Angel Otero at Tombstone
Yesterday

Tombstone, Ariz.,June 12 (Spec-
ial.)—In the case of Angel Otero
charged with the killing of Gregorio
Cazares, the jury after being out forty
onehours returned a verdict this afternoon,
finding the defendant guilty
of murder in the first degree and fixing
the penalty at life imprisonment.

Re: Billy Leroy - Outlaw - Stagecoach Robber -Died in 1881 Lynched by Vigilantes

maryleroy39 — 2009-09-04 19:57:57Z

Berry, I found the book, "A Gathering of Wolves" and it was very interesting. I was interested in finding out about Arthur Pond alias Billy LeRoy. Where he came from and etc. I am still curious but certain I will never know, where he picked up the alias. I am researching LeRoy's from LA to TX to TN. We are at a deadend, so you try everything. I find no connection with this story. Thanks, for sharing the info for research. ML

Thanks for sharing this info with me.

Altagracia and Angel Otero - Prisoners at the Yuma Territorial Prison

theoteros — 2009-08-29 23:32:44Z

Does anyone have info on Altagracia or Angel Otero?
Altagracia was the oldest female prisoner at the Yuma Territorial Prison. She was imprisoned for selling alcohol to the Indians. Angel Otero was imprisoned there to for killing his traveling companion, assisted by his wife.

Appreciate any help.

Re: Billy Leroy - Outlaw - Stagecoach Robber -Died in 1881 Lynched by Vigilantes

msledav — 2009-07-24 01:49:00Z

Thanks for the reply. I will search for the book as suggested. Mary

Re: Billy Leroy - Outlaw - Stagecoach Robber -Died in 1881 Lynched by Vigilantes

berrys — 2009-07-23 15:53:12Z

Miner’s next associate in crime was a farmhand named Arthur Pond. On September 1, 1880, they stole $50 and two mail sacks in Ohio city. On October 14, they held up a stagecoach on the Del Norte route, and hit a jackpot of $4,000. To elude authorities, Miner and Pond changed their names to William A. Morgan and Billy LeRoy. The authorities were not fooled. Pond was soon caught and sentenced to 10 years, although he escaped. He met first with his brother, then Miner, and a new spree began. The Del Norte route was attacked on May 15 and again on May 18, 1881. While Miner was buying supplies with this new money, the Pond brothers were caught and lynched by a mob of angry citizens outside the jail house. The loss of these boys did not derail Miner.

Also see "Bandit Years: A Gathering of Wolves" by Mark Dugan. Profiles four unforgettable outlaws who made the Barlow-Sanderson Overland Mail their special target: Billy LeRoy, Bill Miner, Charley Allison and Hamilton White III. Western Legacy, 1987. Soft cover. $13.50

Re: Diamond Tooth 'Lil

berrys — 2009-07-23 01:19:51Z

Here's a story and picture of 'Lil

http://www.yukon-news.com/opinions/columns/12736/

Billy Leroy - Outlaw - Stagecoach Robber -Died in 1881 Lynched by Vigilantes

msledav — 2009-07-22 23:07:13Z

I read this info on an Old West Site. No details or contact person.

Has anyone seen this info? Do not know what state, etc. It was posted, had to come from someplace.

Anxious to hear the rest of the story! Thanks

Re: Diamond Tooth 'Lil

trudiestaple — 2009-05-22 02:18:24Z

My Mother and Father are buried next to Honora Ornstein AKA Diamond Tooth Lil in Yakima. We frequently visit and place flowers on her grave. (See attached May 2009 photo)

I would love to speak with you and learn more about Diamond Tooth Lil.

Thank you,
stapleton@mindspring.com

Diamond Tooth Lil

trudiestaple — 2009-05-22 02:06:02Z

Photo of Honora Ornstein AKA Diamond Toot Lil's grave.

Please contact me if you have any information regarding Diamond Tooth Lil.

Thank you,
stapleton@mindspring.om

Re: Sam Bass Gang And John Riley Flowers

NancyDruFlowers — 2009-03-11 13:55:26Z

Okay, here is what is on my new chart. There is a Mary Jane Boren mentioned as being married to Wyatt Flowers. She was born "about 1822" in Tennessee. He also married Annie n. Neece, but I have no info of the dates or anything else.

Re: Sam Bass Gang And John Riley Flowers

NancyDruFlowers — 2009-03-11 13:48:06Z

Hello, my name is Nancy Dru Flowers and I am the Daughter of Walter Vernon Flowers born in Long Beach, California on 6-3-1916. I really appreciate the fact that you took the time to write out this info that I just found. I was just sent a geneology tree from my Niece, Renee Dru Flowers Harward. In it she has info going back to the 1700's about the Flowers side of our Family. You have really added to the background info we didn't have...thank you!

Re: Outlaw Relative - John Marion Custer

JessicaWatson25 — 2009-01-05 22:57:14Z

I am also a relative of John Marion Custer, He is my Great- Grandfather. I was also trying to find information on him and his wife. If you find anything please email me at bball_princess2006@yahoo.com. If you have any other information you are willing to share please email me. I have found out that he was born in 1865 not 1864.

Jessica

OFFER TO DO CRIMINAL LOOKUPS

circa_1948 — 2008-12-15 00:26:35Z

I have compiled about 1 Gig of mug shots/Bertillon records, wanted posters, convict/inmate/prison/FBI, civil and criminal court records, newspaper accounts as well as convict ships/inmate and other such info and made them searchable on my PC. These include several countries and dates from about 1500 to present.

I'd like to offer to search these records for anyone who would like. If so, email me here circa_1948@hotmail.com with any/all of the following if you know it:

1- subject's age, full name & any AKAs.
2- what the crime was.
3- where subject was incarcerated (prison & city/state).
4- where the crime happened.if diff from #3.
5- date crime happened.
6- incarceration dates.

Keep it brief at first and if I need more I'll email you and ask.

Re: John Ash/Pretty Boy Floyd - Family legend vs facts

Jane9163 — 2008-09-02 20:44:42Z

I would like to get in touch with you and share information. Please e-mail me at ejwebb@mcn.org. I have a photo of the Ash family when they lived in Collin Co., TX that has Margaret and all of the children and also Margaret's mother. I think Susie was probably about 10-12 in the photo. I have never found anybody else that had a copy of that photo. My husband's grandmother was Sarah Jane who was the youngest child and died very young.
Jane Webb

Re: John Ash/Pretty Boy Floyd - Family legend vs facts

utahcrone — 2008-09-01 22:45:44Z

My grandmother was Susan Francis Ash Kidney. I remember her talking about her brother John. My mother did not like her talking about John since he was a "jailbird". If John was anyway connected to Pretty Boy Floyd, my grandmother did not know of it.
Of John's father, I know little only that he was a well digger and died when my grandmother was quite young.

George Black, Excecuted for Murder, Laramie Wyoming 1890

ifonlyuwereme — 2008-08-21 19:25:48Z

I have the attached picture of an execution by hanging of George Black by Sheriff Charles A Yund, Albany County, Wyoming. Yund was my great grandfather. I have his account of the capture of this gentlemen and the investigation of the murder for which he was convicted. If you are interested in this information for your family tree, please let me know. My searches for Mr. Blacks family members have not been able to go farther than his wife, who died a month later in Laramie. Thank you!

Re: Sam and Thomas Edward "Black Jack" Ketchum gang

EdisonHarris — 2008-06-09 04:20:04Z

I am a direct 5th generation grandson of Thomas.Most people do not read mail after they have posted ,so i will not go on with any information other than what i want you to know as of now.My name is Eddie Harris.I live in New Mexico and have contact with the Harris and Ketchum family.I can make history unfold and a new aspect of the old west unfold in ways you couldnt even picture............Balls in your quart!eddieharris77@yahoo.com is our mail or 505-403-7075..I am not really expecting a call,but we will see about what you know about our family history.I do not know who you talked to and dont really care,but the 20,000 dollars paid for three generations of education for us and i have three more to go of mine ...........See,we all make out ...And you know whats funny,The OUTLAW is in the blood,and i will explaine later on.Take care,you have one week to respond

Re: Outlaw Relative - John Marion Custer

ronandmindy — 2008-05-26 19:31:06Z

Hello,

I appreciate your response to my post! Yep, John Marion Custer is the son of George Thomas Custer. I believe he was named after his uncle John Marion Custer who died in the Civil War.

I actually have a book called "The Trail Drivers of Texas" which is a compilation of many first hand accounts from Old Time Trail Drivers. Each man contibuted a brief tale of his life and times on the Cattle Trails. John Marion Custer submitted his tale called "Scouting and Routing in the Good Old Days". The book was published in about 1915 or so. This is where he tells of his getting into some trouble in South Texas and time spent riding under the alias of Bill Wilson. He never says exactly what he did to get in trouble and that is one of the things I have been trying to find.

Please send me your email address and I will send you a couple of pictures and tell you exactly how I am related. Also,I would love to see the pictures you have as well.

Thanks again for contacting me!

Ron Woods Jr.

Re: Outlaw Relative - John Marion Custer

LoriHall64 — 2008-05-26 13:10:15Z

I'm going to have to get the list out. I decend from the Marion County, Alabama Custers as well. They settled in Live Oak County area after the civil war. They came down with Zachariah Holliday clan. George Thomas Custer is who I believe is John Marion's father. I would love to see that picture you have. I have one of George Thomas and who is probably John Marion's brother, Andrew Jackson Custer. Looks like we might be cousins!

Please email me!

Re: Anyone have any information?

hypnobambie — 2008-05-15 08:24:21Z

I have the genealogy connections for George Longabaugh cousin to Harry A Longabaugh. I am looking for a descendent of Harvey Longabaugh brother to Harry A Longabaugh, who's son is William Henry Longabaugh who's son is William David Longabaugh who has a son.

I am looking for this son. William David Longabaugh died in Goldsboro, South Carolina in 1988, but I can't find the obituary yet.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks

Bambie

Re: Anyone have any information?

hypnobambie — 2008-05-15 08:16:38Z

[John Graham] Footnote to a legend, Billy the Kid

C_HarrelsonBuckley — 2008-05-14 18:12:28Z

Looking for photos, information and descendants of Abraham Gerden Graham, 1851-1922 born on Mitchell Swamp, Horry County, South Carolina. The outlaw-hero used a number of alais, John Graham, John Collins, "Shotgun" Collins and was dubbed "Gunnysack" Johnny by the troops he rode with when he was hired as an Indian Scout by the U S Calvary.
John Graham was a footnote to a legend, Billy the Kid, the most famous outlaw of all times.
C J

Re: Photo of Butch, Sundance, and Etta Place at South American ranch?

Rachael_Edwards — 2008-01-19 22:38:51Z

my uncle rode with the butch cassidy gang Butch was and my grandpa were super good friends his name was Jonathan Josiah Meeks i have a pic of my uncle bud he was ther watcham and he rode with them email me rachaeledwards20@yahoo.com butch cassidys real anme was robert leroy parker and he was a mormom and he was a son of a bishop and thats all i know and henry rhoads meeks jr thats my uncle he rode with them and he was there watchman hope it helps email is rachaeledwards20@yahoo.com

Re: Dalton Gang

Rachael_Edwards — 2008-01-19 22:34:31Z

the Dalton gang and the youngers are related also i am related to hank thomas he arrested the dalton gangemail is rachaeledwards20@yahoo.com

Re: Wild Bunch-St.Louis,Mo.

Rachael_Edwards — 2008-01-19 11:17:21Z

uncle bud meeks rode with the butch casidy gange but never heard of the person you mention need full name email back email is rachaeledwards20@yahoo.com

Re: Anyone have any information?

hypnobambie — 2008-01-15 05:14:35Z

I'm looking for the same link. Have you found anything yet?

George was supposed to the a counsin to the Harry A Longabaugh, but I am yet to find this connection. I have found George's descendents.

Are you a descendent of George? If so, please repond, I'd like to pool our efforts in finding this information. Are you an actual Longabaugh descendent?

Thanks

Bambie

Re: Murder in Walla Walla

granny01 — 2007-12-10 18:55:37Z

Hi my name is Donna and this is part of my family if you will give me about one hour and your home e-mail address I will send you that story. But it will have to come as attachment if that is okay. It is to long to go on a e-mail letter without being attachment. How do you fit into this family
Sincerely
Donna granny01@uci.net

Murder in Walla Walla

vickih20317 — 2007-12-10 18:46:17Z

I am trying to find information on a murder, escape, and child abduction that took place in Walla Walla, Washington.The murder happened on Jan 1, 1861 on the Wiskey or Hog Eye Creek putting into the Touchet River, the victim was Isreal D. Davis the accused Alonzo J. Beebe. Alonzo was arrested and placed in the jail in the city of Walla Walla, around the end of March or begining of April he escaped. He and his family, father Philo, Brothers Hiram and George all dissapeared taking Laura daughter of Alonzo by Mary Cantrall whom he never married with them. She was 6 years old at the time. Mary did go through the court system in an attempted to get her daughter back. Where would I find information on this event? Were there newspapers in the area? I would like to know if Alonzo was ever caught and returned to Walla Walla to face trail.

Re: Dave Rudabaugh

berrys — 2007-11-17 21:53:03Z

If you will google "Dave Rudabaugh" you will get a hundred or more hits. What, exactly, are you looking for?

Dave Rudabaugh

ccaldwelltexas — 2007-11-17 20:58:21Z

Looking for information on Dave Rudabaugh. Please contact me if you have any

Sam and Thomas Edward "Black Jack" Ketchum gang

berrys — 2007-11-01 22:21:19Z

If you are kin to the Thomas Edward "Black Jack" Ketchum family line, or if you are interested, in general, about the history of outlawry in the late 1800s in the American Southwest, a new book by Jeff Burton has been published by Palomino Books that is excellent. Jeff wrote the definitive book about the Ketchum gang in the 1960s and has continued to research and expand his expertise about the gang for 40 years. His latest book, THE DEADLIEST OUTLAWS, is definitely not a rewrite of the first book. It is a detailed history of the gang, and all of the various members of the gang. The book is over 500 pages in length. It tracks their entire outlaw history in great detail including their movements around the southwest, and the when, where, how of all of their crimes. Everything is backed up with literally hundreds of specific references to newspaper articles, court records, historical excerpts by contemporary writers of the time, and other sources. There are more than 50 photographs in the book. I find it an amazingly detailed and factual look into the life of the gang, and a pretty good history of 1800s law enforcement, and Southwestern life in general.

The book was published in England because the author, Jeff Burton, is a member of The English Westerners’ Society (formerly, The English Corral of the Westerners) whose charter describes it as a non-profit making, educational organization of those whose special interest is a preservation of the historical, ethnological and cultural background and evolution of the American West. It issues publications and holds meetings; and exists to promote and assist similar activities connected with the study of the American frontier. Jeff has made many trips to the U.S. over the years to research the Ketchum outlaw gang.

Several well known outlaws who rode with other gangs (the Wild Bunch etc.) rode on occasion with the Black Jack Ketchum gang, and all of these connections are spelled out and documented in the book.

Only 100 initial copies were published, due to the costs of publishing such a relatively large book for a fairly small number of academicians, historians, libraries and genealogists interested in the detailed information contained in the book.

I am the great grandson of Sam Ketchum, but I have no financial interest in the book. I am simply relaying the information. You can purchase a copy by contacting

Jeffrey Burton
Palomino Books
58 Albert Street
Gosport
Hampshire PO124TY
England

For information about the gang, see:
http://www.hal-pc.org/~berrys

Re: James Copeland/Outlaw

KathleenKittrellGalloway — 2007-10-26 18:23:59Z

I am related to the Copeland family through the Kittrell side of the family. I had read something about James Copeland's body being dug up after he was hung and made into a skeleton for a doctor's office in the town where he was hung. I think the docotor's name was Kennedy. Do you know anything about this?

Re: Diamond Tooth 'Lil

KDCERF1951 — 2007-08-11 20:53:18Z

My sister took care of Lil in a nursing home in the 60's. She talked a lot to Lil and was told numerous stories by her about her life. Contact me and I will tell you some stories. She talked about her little brother a lot. She felt responsible for his death. He was about 2 or 3. He fell out a window 3 stories up while she was watching him

Re: James Copeland/Outlaw

nahuskcol — 2007-07-06 04:25:41Z

In addition to the MS connection I have - when I was younger; it was said that our family may have had a connection to Jesse James; seems kind of far-fetched but anything is possible I suppose.

Re: James Copeland/Outlaw

nahuskcol — 2007-07-06 04:25:34Z

In addition to the MS connection I have - when I was younger; it was said that our family may have had a connection to Jesse James; seems kind of far-fetched but anything is possible I suppose.

Re: James Copeland/Outlaw

nahuskcol — 2007-07-06 04:22:28Z

I know this is a shot in the dark - but I am looking for any information on The Copelands in MS. I have a great grandmother who was sent to live with an aunt. I have no other information other than her name was Josephine Ella Copeland - born in Mississippi. In the 1880 census, she is listed as living with aunt/uncle - John & Martha Harrell - Pelahatchie, Rankin, MS. She went on to marry a Charles (charley) C.T. Forsyth in Texas. Died in Pittsburgh Cty, OK

Re: HENRY PLUMMER

mycinnamongirl — 2007-07-01 20:29:49Z

My new email address is ronnideam@hotmail.com in case anyone has any info. Thanks!

Re: John Ash/Pretty Boy Floyd - Family legend vs facts

Jane9163 — 2007-05-13 21:40:40Z

Yes, I have the information from the 1900 Washita Co., OK census. My earliest information on the Ash family is from the 1870 census from Dent Co., MO when Hamilton Ash and Margaret Cates were newly-weds. In that census Hamilton states he was born in Georgia. All other census data shows Alabama. I have no idea if he had siblings or who his parents are. His name was General Hamilton Ash. The General appears to be a given name – not a title. Most records are listed under G.H. Ash. They left MO after the birth of their first child and went to Young Co., TX where they homesteaded land and the rest of their children were born. Their next stop was Collin Co., TX where the 3 oldest girls were married. Hamilton Ash died there ca 1891. His widow went to Washita Co., OK where she homesteaded land and then was killed in a tornado in 1912. John Ash was their only son and several branches of the family relate the tales about him running with an outlaw gang. It runs the gamut from the James gang to the Hole-in-the-wall gang to Pretty Boy Floyd. The others are way too early to involve John Ash. Apparently John did hard time in prison but I don’t know for what. He didn’t seem to stay in one place very long. In 1910 he was in Eddy Co., NM; 1920 he was in Childress Co., TX (their children are not with them in that census); 1930 he was in Potter Co., TX and he died in Dallas Co., TX in 1959.
If anyone reads this that has any connection to this family or additional information on John Ash’s outlaw life I would like to hear from them. There seems to be too much smoke for there not to be a fire somewhere.

Re: John Ash/Pretty Boy Floyd - Family legend vs facts

JeanR970 — 2007-05-13 20:04:46Z

Have you found the information on Ancestry.com?
I found a Margey Ash, Sept 1842 born Tenn,
John, son May 1878, Tx
Susan F. dau Feb 1882
George H. McAdams, Grandson, Oct 1892
Martha E. McAdams, Granddau, July 1895
John's father is listed as born in Ala.

Re: John Ash/Pretty Boy Floyd - Family legend vs facts

JeanR970 — 2007-05-13 18:52:46Z

Research, Research, Research.............Good Luck, Happy Hunting.

John Ash/Pretty Boy Floyd - Family legend vs facts

Jane9163 — 2007-05-13 17:23:33Z

Legends passed down through the family relate that John Ash (b. 1878 Young Co TX; lived in Washita Co. OK; Eddy Co, NM; Childress Co, TX; Potter Co, TX)was part of the group that ran with Pretty Boy Floyd. I have been unable to find any trace of the Ash family before 1870 in MO. It is possible that Sadie Ash who ran a refuge for outlaws in KC, Missouri might be related since John's father was m. in MO. An elderly relative claimed that a photo that was in New Holland Magazine had a photo of John Ash with other gang members. How does one separate the fact from fiction?

Re: Obituaries King Moore Fraley

snowqueenjude — 2007-05-13 03:39:59Z

Thank you I will go and see

Re: Obituaries King Moore Fraley

JeanR970 — 2007-05-13 03:15:30Z

E Fraley
Estimated birth year: abt 1860
Age in 1870: 10
Birthplace: Tennessee
Home in 1870: Beat 5, Navarro, Texas
Family and neighbors: View Results
Race: White
Gender: Female
Value of real estate: View image
Nothing but initals on the Census. Father is W.D. age 22 , Mother is S.A age 21, N.A. age 19 (F) S.A. age 15 (F) D. Y. age 12 (F), E. age 10 (F) M.W. age 9 (F) J.M. age 6 (M), J.F. age 4 (M).
I found this on Ancestry.com. Hope it helps.

Obituaries King Moore Fraley

snowqueenjude — 2007-05-10 09:51:36Z

I'm looking for Eligha Fraley from Tenn bron 1858

Re: outlaws(old west)

snowqueenjude — 2007-04-30 03:45:25Z

Thank You very much. It helps a lot. My granfather did not like talkibg about him

Re: outlaws(old west)

JeanR970 — 2007-04-30 02:03:28Z

Name: Billy Moore
Spouse: Clara King
Parents: George W Moore , Sarah Yocum
Birth Place: McLennan County, Moody, TX
Birth Date: 23 Jan 1875
Marriage Date: 8 Mar 1914
Death Place: Waco, McLennan County, TX
Death Date: 2 Feb 1951

Name: BILLY H MOORE
Father's Surname: MOORE
Death Date: 2 Aug 1980
Death Place: Branford, Connecticut
Age: 47 Years
Birth Place: Texas
Birth Date: 10 January xxxYOB33
Marital Status: Married
Spouse: JUDIT
State File #: 15802
Residence: East Lyme, Connecticut
Gender: Unknown
Race: White
Hispanic Origin:

Name: William Billy Moore
Mother: Adeline Moore
Father: William Ralph Moore
Birth: 17 Dec 1907 - Los Angeles, Los Angeles, CA
Death: 1971 - South Gate, Los Angeles, CA

Name: Billy Moore
Birth: abt 1860 - Texas
Residence: 1920 - Justice Precinct 2, Lamar, Texas

Name: Billy Moore
Birth: abt 1860 - Texas
Residence: 1900 - Justice Precinct 1, Hunt, Texas

does this help any?

One Eye Billy Moore

snowqueenjude — 2007-04-29 03:58:33Z

Billy Moore is said to have been haned in Arizona for taking a chicken. But I also heard he went to Alaska. Dose any one Know?

Re: outlaws(old west)

snowqueenjude — 2007-04-29 00:20:38Z

Look in Texas Wyoming and Mo

Re: outlaws(old west)

JeanR970 — 2007-04-28 21:37:54Z

Do you have any other info about Billy? Ancestry.com has Billy Moore's but I have no idea what state to look at.

outlaws(old west)

snowqueenjude — 2007-04-28 02:32:01Z

I'm looking for information about Billy Moore. Also called
One Eye Bill Moore. Born about 1858 He know The James Gang.